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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 81

Tuesday, November 17, 1998

The Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development met at 9:30 a.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Chair, Charles Caccia, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Charles Caccia, Aileen Carroll, Rick Casson, Roger Gallaway, Bill Gilmour, Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, John Herron, Joe Jordan, Karen Kraft Sloan, Rick Laliberté, David Pratt, Paddy Torsney.

Acting Members present: Ian Murray for Sarkis Assadourian, Claudette Bradshaw for Yvon Charbonneau, John Richardson for Yvon Charbonneau, Mac Harb for Roger Gallaway, Janko Peric for Roger Gallaway.

Other Members present: Clifford Lincoln.

In attendance: From the Committees and Legislative Services Directorate: Marc Toupin and Paulette Nadeau, Legislative Clerks. From the Library of Parliament: Monique Hébert, Research Officer. From Resources Futures International: John Moffet, consultant.

Witnesses: From Environment Canada: Harvey Lerer, Director General, Canadian Environmental Protection Act Office; Karen Lloyd, Manager; CEPA Office; Duncan Cameron, Legal Counsel, Legal Services, CEPA Office; Steve Mongrain, CEPA Office.

The Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-32, An Act respecting pollution prevention and the protection of the environment and human health in order to contribute to sustainable development. (See Minutes of Proceedings, dated Wednesday, May 14, 1998, Meeting No. 53)

The Committee discussed the procedural acceptability of amendments.

The Committee resumed to Clause-by-Clause consideration of the Bill.

Duncan Cameron and Harvey Lerer answered questions.

By unanimous consent, Clause 2 was allowed to stand.

At 9:50 a.m., the Committee considered Clause 3.

On Clause 3.

Rick Laliberté moved, - That, Clause 3, be amended

(a) by striking out line 25 on page 5 and substituting the following therefore:

"property,"

(b) by striking out line 29 on page 5 and substituting the following therefore:

"to its use by humans, animals or plants: or

(f) interferes with normal climatic procedures;"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was negatived.

Paddy Torsney moved, - That Clause 3, be amended by adding after line 14 on page 6 the following:

"enforcement officer"

""enforcement officer" means a person or a member of a class of persons designated as an enforcement officer under section 217."

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was agreed to.

On Clauses 95, 96, 130, 153, 169, 179, 201, 202, 212, 213, 218, 223, 225, 229, 235, 237, 239, 241, 310.

By unanimous consent, Paddy Torsney moved, - That Bill C-32 be amended by striking out the word "inspector", and substituting therefore the words "enforcement officer" at the following places:

(a) Clause 95:

    1. page 66, line 11
    2. page 66, line 14
    3. page 66, lines 43-44
    4. page67, line 11
    5. page 67, line 14
    6. page 67, line 19

(b) Clause 96, page 67, line 43

(c) Clause 130, page 96, lines 17-18

(d) Clause 153, page 107, line 20

(e) Clause 169:

    1. page 119, line 33
    2. page 119, line 36
    3. page 120, line 14
    4. page 120, line 26
    5. page 120, line29
    6. page 120, line 34

(f) Clause 179:

    1. page 126, line 29
    2. page 126, line 32
    3. page 127, line 12
    4. page 127, line 24
    5. page 127, line 27
    6. page 127, line 32

(g) Clause 201:

    1. page 139, line 15
    2. page 139, line 18
    3. page 139, line 44
    4. page 140, line 3
    5. page 140, line 6
    6. page 140, line 11

(h) Clause 202, page 140, line 33

(i) Clause 212:

    1. page 149, line 20
    2. page 149, line 22
    3. page 150, line 4
    4. page 150, line 10
    5. page 150, line 18

(j) Clause 213, page 150, line 39

(k) Clause 218:

    1. page 153, line 33
    2. page 153, line 34
    3. page 154, line 37
    4. page 155, line 13
    5. page 155, line 25
    6. page 155, line 32
    7. page 155, line 36
    8. page 156, line 14
    9. page 156, line 25
    10. page 156, line 34
    11. page 157, line 13
    12. page 157, line 18
    13. page 157, line 21
    14. page 157, line 25
    15. page 157, line 40

(l) Clause 223:

    1. page 161, line 2
    2. page 161, line 5
    3. page 161, line 11
    4. page 161, line 16
    5. page 161, line 21
    6. page 161, line 28
    7. page 161, line 29
    8. page 162, line 3
    9. page 162, line 8
    10. page 162, line 24
    11. page 162, line 27
    12. page 162, line 31

(m) Clause 225:

    1. page 164, line 8
    2. page 164, line 13

(n) Clause 229:

    1. page 166, line 1
    2. page 166, line 6

(o) Clause 235:

    1. page 169, line 20
    2. page 169, line 28
    3. page 170, line 45
    4. page 171, lines 6-7
    5. page 171, line 8

(p) Clause 237:

    1. page 172, line 13
    2. page 172, line 16
    3. page 172, line 28

(q) Clause 239:

    1. page 172, line 42
    2. page 173, line 1

(r) Clause 241:

    1. page 174, line 23
    2. page 174, line 37
    3. page 174, line 41
    4. page 175, line 6
    5. page 175, line 8

(s) Clause 310:

    1. page 200, line 20
    2. page 200, line 23

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was agreed to.

On Clause 3.

 Paddy Torsney moved, - That Clause 3, be amended by striking out lines 20 to 22 on page 8.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was agreed to.

Paddy Torsney moved, - That Clause 3, be amended by striking out lines 23 to 25 on page 8.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was agreed to.

Karen Kraft Sloan moved, - That Clause 3, be amended by striking out line 32 on page 8 and substituting the following therefore:

"cesses, practices, materials, products, substances or en-"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was agreed to.

Rick Laliberté moved, - That, Clause 3, be amended by striking out lines 33 and 34 on page 8 and substituting the following therefore:

"ergy that avoid, minimize or eliminate the creation of pollutants and waste and that may include recycling, changes in treatment processes, regulatory mechanisms, effective use of resources, the principle of toxic substance use reduction, material substitution or other methods to reduce the overall"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was negatived.

Paddy Torsney moved, - That, Clause 3, be amended by

(a) striking out line 19 on page 9 and substituting the following therefore:

"reaction,"

(b) striking out lines 25 to 31 on page 9 and substituting the following therefore:

"ents, and

(e) any mixture that is a combination of substances and does not itself produce a substance that is different from the substances that were combined,

and, except for the purposes of sections 66, 80 to 89 and 104 to 115, includes"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was agreed to.

Clause 3 as amended, carried.

Clause 4 carried.

Clause 5 carried.

On Clause 6.

John Herron moved, - That, Clause 6, be amended by striking out after line 12 on page 11 and substituting the following therefore:

"(1.1) On giving its advice and recommendations, the Committee shall use the precautionary principle."

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and was agreed to.

Paddy Torsney moved, - That, Clause 6, be amended by striking out lines 32 and 33 on page 11 and substituting the following therefore:

"Saskatchewan, Alberta, the Northwest Territories and Nunavut,"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and was agreed to.

Bill Gilmour moved, - That, Clause 6, be amended by striking out after line 38 on page 11 and substituting the following therefore:

"(2.1) The representative of a provincial government shall be selected by that government.

(2.2) Subject to subsection (3), the representative of aboriginal governments shall be selected by the aboriginal governments he or she represents.

(2.3.) Subject to subsection (3), the representative of Inuit aboriginal governments shall be selected by those governments."

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was agreed to.

Clause 6 as amended, carried.

Clause 7 carried.

Clause 8 carried.

On Clause 9.

Jocelyne Girard-Bujold moved, - That, Clause 9, be amended by striking out lines 19 to 22 on page 12 and substituting the following therefore:

"9. (1) The Minister shall negotiate with a government or with an aboriginal people with a view to entering into an agreement with respect to the administration of this Act."

By unanimous consent, the amendment was allowed to stand.

By unanimous consent, Clause 9 was allowed to stand.

On Clause 10.

John Herron moved, - That, Clause 10, be amended

(a) by striking out line 39 on page 13 and substituting the following therefore:

"(a) provisions that are equivalent in intent and effect to a"

(b) by striking out line 42 on page 13 and substituting the following therefore:

"(b) provisions that are similar in intent and effect to section 17"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was negatived.

Karen Kraft Sloan moved, - That, Clause 10, be amended by

  1. striking out line 41 on page 13 and substituting the following therefore:

    2. "to in subsection (1) or (2);"

  2. striking out line 5 on page 14 and substituting the following therefore:

"the government,
      1. provisions that are equivalent to sections 22 to 42 for environmental protection actions under environmental legislation of that jurisdiction, and
      2. provisions that are equivalent to sections 16, 96, and 202 regarding voluntary reports under environmental legislation of that jurisdiction,

the Governor in Council may, on the recommendation of the Minister, make an order declaring that the provisions of the regulation do not apply in the area under the jurisdiction of the government."

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was negatived.

Jocelyne Girard-Bujold moved, - That Clause 10, be amended by adding after line 28 on page14 the following:

"(7.1) After an agreement referred to in subsection (3) has been entered into, the Minister shall pay the government, on June 1 of each and every year, financial compensation equal to the costs incurred by the government, in the previous fiscal year,
      1. for the implementation of policies, programs or projects to which the agreement referred to in subsection (3) applies; and
      2. for the investigation of alleged offences under environmental legislation of that jurisdiction."

RULING BY THE CHAIR

"The proposed amendment would require the Federal Government to provide financial compensation to a government with which it has entered into an agreement pursuant to clause 10, subsection (3).

According to Beauchesne, 6th Edition, Citation 698(7):

"An amendment is out of order if it imposes a charge upon the Public Treasury, if it extends the objects and purposes, or relaxes the conditions and qualifications as expressed in the Royal Recommendation."

In consequence, I regretfully have to rule the amendment out of order."

By unanimous consent, Roger Gallaway moved, - That Clause 10, be amended by striking out lines 39 to 42 on page 13 and substituting the following therefore:

"(a) provisions that are equivalent in their application and effects to a regulation made under a provision referred to in subsection (1) or (2), and

(b) provisions that are similar in their application and effects to section 17"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was negatived.

Clause 10 carried.

Clause 11 carried.

On Clause 12.

Jocelyne Girard-Bujold moved, - That, Clause 12, be amended by striking out line 4 on page 15 and substituting the following therefore:

"be called the Environmental Registry, including an index of aboriginal related matters concerning the protection of the environment from the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, for the"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and it was negatived.

Clause 12 carried.

At 11:03 a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

 

Stephen Knowles

 


Clerk of the Committee