HRPD Committee Meeting

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 30

Tuesday, April 21, 1998

The Standing Committee on Human Resources Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities met at 9:15 o’clock a.m., this day, in room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Reg Alcock, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Reg Alcock, Rob Anders, Claudette Bradshaw, Bonnie Brown, Brenda Chamberlain, Jean Dubé, Christiane Gagnon, Albina Guarnieri, Dale Johnston, Larry McCormick, Robert Nault and Byron Wilfert.

Acting Members present: Yves Rocheleau for Paul Crête, Pat Martin for Libby Davies, Gary Pillitteri for Carolyn Bennett, Janko Peric for Nick Discepola, John Williams for Diane Ablonczy to 11:24 o’clock a.m., Rick Casson for Diane Ablonczy to 12:12 o’clock p.m., Val Meredith for Diane Ablonczy to 1:01 p.m..

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: June Dewetering, Research Officer. From the Committees and Legislative Services: Eric Janse, Monique Hamilton and Suzanne Verville, Legislative Clerks.

Witnesses: Human Resources Development Canada: Michael McDermott, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister; Debra Robinson, Project Director, Legislative Review; Yvonne Beaupré, Senior Counsel, Legal Services. Statistics Canada: Krishna Sahay, Director, Industrial Organization and Finance.

The Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-19, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (Part 1) and the Corporations and Labour Unions Returns Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, March 24, 1998, Meeting No. 19).

The Committee proceeded to the consideration of its future business.

It was resolved, -That the Committee would meet with a delegation from the Social Affairs Committee of the Chamber of Representatives of the Italian Parliament on May 5, 1998.

It was resolved, -That Honourable Lawrence MacCaulay be re-scheduled to appear before the Committee in the morning of May 5, 1998.

At 9:20 o’clock a.m., the Committee proceeded to clause-by-clause consideration.

The Chair made a statement.

It was agreed, -That the Committee would combine clauses for discussion where no amendments are to be proposed.

Clause 1 carried.

On Clause 2.

Dale Johnston moved, -That Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 35 on page 2 with the following:

"Council at any time for cause, including misconduct or abuse of public funds."

After debate, John Williams moved the following sub-amendment:

That the amendment be amended by adding after the word "including", the following

"but not limited to"

The question being put on the sub-amendment it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Bonnie Brown

Dale Johnston

Pat Martin

John Williams --5

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Brenda Chamberlain

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert --8

 And the question being put on the amendment it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Dale Johnston

John Williams --3

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert --10

Dale Johnston moved, -That Clause 2 be amended by replacing line 6 on page 3 with the following:

"nor in Council at any time for cause, including misconduct or abuse of public funds."

After debate, John Williams moved the following sub-amendment, --That the amendment be amended by adding after the word "including", the following:

"but not limited to".

After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Bonnie Brown

Dale Johnston

John Williams -- 4

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert --9

And the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Dale Johnston

John Williams -- 3

NAYS

Brenda Chamberlain

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert -- 10

Dale Johnston moved, - That Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 18 to 20 on page 3 with the following:

" (5) The Chairperson and Vice-Chairpersons, members and the part-time members referred to in paragraph 9(2)(e) must have experience and expertise in industrial relations and, before they are appointed, must satisfy the standing committee of the House of Commons that normally considers matters relating to industrial relations that they have such experience and expertise."

 

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Janko Peric

John Williams

Rob Anders

Dale Johnston -- 4

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert -- 9

Dale Johnston moved, -That Clause 2 be amended by replacing lines 14 to 17 on page 4 with the following:

" 12.01 (1) The chairperson is the chief executive officer of the Board and has responsibility for, supervision over and direction of the work of the Board, including"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Dale Johnston

John Williams -- 3

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert -- 10

Dale Johnston moved, -That Clause 2 be amended by adding after line 36 on page 5 the following:

"(3) Where a part-time member is paid travel and living expenses by virtue of subsection (2), and those expenses are incurred in the course of carrying out duties and responsibilities under this Act in respect of a dispute heard or determined by the Board, the parties to the dispute shall reimburse Her Majesty in right of Canada in equal parts for the money paid to the part-time member for those expenses and that money, until paid, constitutes a debt recoverable by action in any court of competent jurisdiction as a debt due to Her Majesty in right of Canada."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Dale Johnston -- 2

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert-- 8

Dale Johnston moved, -That Clause 2 be amended by replacing lines 1 to 6 on page 6 with the following:

" 12.06 (1) The Chairperson may request the Minister to decide whether any member of the Board should be subject to remedial or disciplinary measures for any reason set out in paragraphs 12.14(2)(a) to (d).

(2) A person, other than the Chairperson, who believes on reasonable grounds that a member of the Board should be subject to remedial or disciplinary measures for any reason set out in paragraphs 12.14(2)(a) to (d) may request the Minister to decide whether the member shall be subject to remedial or disciplinary measures and may request anonymity with respect to the request.

(3) The Minister shall keep confidential the identity of any one making a request under subsection (2) who has requested anonymity with respect to the request.

(4) No person shall dismiss, suspend, demote, discipline, remove a benefit or privilege of employment from, terminate the contract of, harass, coerce or otherwise disadvantage a person referred to in subsection (2) on the grounds that the person made a request under that subsection.

12.07 On receipt of a request referred to in subsection 12.06(1) or (2), the Minister"

Debate arose thereon.

The attention of the Chair having been drawn to the question of a want of quorum:

And a count of the committee having been taken and there being an absence of a quorum, by unanimous consent at 11:06 o’clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 11:13 o’clock a.m., the sitting resumed.

The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.

The Committee resumed debate on amendment Ref 6 of Dale Johnston.

Rob Anders moved the following sub-amendment, --That the amendment be amended by replacing the words "remedial or disciplinary measures" with the following:

"remedial, disciplinary or rewarding measures".

Debate arose thereon.

Rob Anders moved, -That a legal opinion be obtained on protection of whistle blowers before the Committee proceeds any further with Clause 2.

And a point of order having been raised as to the procedural acceptability of the proposed motion, the Chairman ruled:

RULING BY THE CHAIR

Rob Anders’ motion is out of order because there can be but one question pending at the same time according to Beauchesne’s citation 552(3) of the sixth Edition of Beauchesne’s Parliamentary Rules and Forms and further because the Committee has not received, pursuant to their rules, 24 hours notice to move this substantive motion.

Rob Anders moved, -That the Committee do now adjourn.

And the question being put on the motion it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Rick Casson

Dale Johnston -- 3

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

arry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert -- 10

The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.

The Committee resumed consideration of the sub-amendment of Rob Anders.

The question being put on the sub-amendment it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Rick Casson

Dale Johnston -- 3

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert -- 10

The Committee resumed debate on amendment Ref 6 of Dale Johnston.

Yves Rocheleau moved, -That the question be now put.

And a point of order having been raised as to the procedural acceptability of the proposed motion, the Chairman ruled:

RULING BY THE CHAIR

A motion for the previous question is not admitted in Committee according to citation 525 of the sixth Edition of Beauchesne’s Parliamentary Rules and Forms.

The attention of the Chair having been drawn to the question of a want of quorum;

And a count of the Committee having been taken and there being an absence of a quorum, by unanimous consent at 12:26 o’clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:28 o’clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.

The Committee resumed debate on amendment Ref 6 of Dale Johnston.

And the question being put on the amendment Ref 6 it was negatived in the following division:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Val Meredith -- 2

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Yves Rocheleau

Bryon Wilfert -- 9

And the question being put on Clause 2, it carried on the following division:

YEAS

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Bryon Wilfert -- 8

NAYS

Rob Anders

Val Meredith -- 2

Debate arose thereon.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed, -That Dale Johnston’s name be added to the two previous recorded divisions.

Accordingly, the recorded division on amendment Ref 6 of Dale Johnston now reads as follows:

YEAS

Rob Anders

Dale Johnston

Val Meredith – 3

NAYS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Bryon Wilfert – 9

Accordingly the recorded division on Clause 2 reads as follows:

YEAS

Claudette Bradshaw

Bonnie Brown

Brenda Chamberlain

Pat Martin

Larry McCormick

Robert Nault

Janko Peric

Gary Pillitteri

Bryon Wilfert -- 9

NAYS

Rob Anders

Dale Johnston

Val Meredith -- 3

On Clauses 3 to 44

Debate resumed, thereon.

At 1:01 o’clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

 

Danielle Bélisle

 Clerk of the Committee