HRPD Committee Meeting

STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT AND THE STATUS OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES

COMITÉ PERMANENT DU DÉVELOPPEMENT DES RESSOURCES HUMAINES ET DE LA CONDITION DES PERSONNES HANDICAPÉES

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Tuesday, March 31, 1998

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[English]

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown (Oakville, Lib.)): Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's my pleasure to welcome you to a very special meeting of the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. This special meeting is called this morning to recognize the Centennial Flame Research Award winner for 1998, and it's my pleasure to bring to your attention the winner, Mr. Wayne Westfall, and the person about whom he wrote, Ms. Francine Arsenault.

The Centennial Flame Research Award Act was an Act of Parliament sponsored by Patrick Boyer, a former of the House of Commons for Etobicoke—Lakeshore. One day, Mr. Boyer saw federal workers scooping up coins from around the flame in the fountain, and he came up with the idea of using the Centennial Flame fountain's message of life, hope and continuity to recognize and publicize the achievements of Canadians with disabilities.

The Act of Parliament was passed on March 27, 1991, to provide an annual monetary award to a Canadian with a disability to research and produce a report aimed at publicizing the contributions to public life of persons with disabilities. The award would comprise money collected from the fountain—money that touring Canadians threw into the fountain—plus any private and corporate donations made to the award fund.

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I would now like to invite this year's winner, Mr. Wayne Westfall, to say a few words to us.

Mr. Wayne Westfall (1998 Recipient, Centennial Flame Research Award): Thank you.

Well, one of the things that I am is a writer. Since we do live in a capitalist society, when I noticed that there was an opportunity for me to make some money, I took advantage of the situation and wrote a proposal to talk about Francine Arsenault, with whom I go back many years.

I sustained my injury when I broke my neck climbing a mountain in Alaska in 1979. Going from being an able-bodied person who is very independent to relying very much on other people's help was a very difficult transition. I met Francine in the early eighties. She had been born with polio. We became good friends, and I found her spirit and her attitude towards her situation to be very inspiring and very helpful for myself.

Francine was also involved politically at that time, both locally and provincially, with issues relating to people with disabilities. We met during a situation that arose when I went with CUSO to Jamaica for two weeks. We were setting up an exchange program between people with disabilities in Kingston, Ontario, and people with disabilities in Kingston, Jamaica, and we met a number of very politically active disabled Jamaicans in that process. When came back to Kingston, we were looking for people in the local community to help us to do some fund-raising to help disabled Jamaicans become more self-reliant. That's when Francine and I became good friends, involved in awareness projects, in furthering the connections between people with disabilities on an international basis.

Since that time, I've realized that although I'm a very political person, I tend to operate best in small groups, one to one. I don't have the stamina to sit through long committee meetings or to do a lot of travel, and I probably don't have the patience either. Francine has various abilities in that area that I don't have, so we have worked together over the years to tap each other's strengths.

I work mostly with individuals in groups locally in Kingston, and Francine does that as well. In addition, she now travels all over the world, advocating for people with disabilities on a global basis.

Francine also has the gift of being a bit of a chameleon. She knows how to say the right things to the right people, how to do it in a sincere and very respectful way, thus acknowledging that everyone, whether we have a visible disability or not, has a place in our society and in our world. She personifies, for me, a real democracy in her using her own talents to further the potential of all people, both those of us who have a disability and those who don't.

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As for myself, I was 30 when I had my injury. It's been almost 19 years since my accident. Over that time, I've had to make huge personal changes in my life, going from being very suicidal to finally, after 7 years of feeling sorry for myself, realizing I'm not going to kill myself, and getting fairly bored with that. It was basically changing an attitude I had, and then finding out what my strengths were, what I could do in our society.

I think that's the message for all of us: what are our strengths, and how do we change attitudes? I work at that in my way, you folks are working at that in your own way, and Francine is working at that in her way.

When I had the opportunity to write an article about her, I immediately took advantage of sending in a proposal. It was accepted. It was very easy. Francine is one of those people where the problem is how to make the article short enough, not how to make it long enough.

You can see, from what I wrote about Francine, that it's only a thumbnail sketch of where she's gone, what she's done, who she's met, the impact she's had on the attitudes of people towards different people, people who have abilities that just aren't recognized in the same manner.

So although I may be the one getting the award today, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for my good friend, who has given, and continues to give, so much of herself to the rest of us.

I thank you.

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Thank you, Wayne, for sharing your story with us. It certainly is very inspiring to hear of someone who was hurt so badly climbing a mountain and who then found, in the next several years, a bigger mountain to climb—a mountain of personal growth, a change of attitude, and all those kinds of things that are applicable to all of us, able or disabled—that you have successfully climbed. We thank you for sharing that with us.

I'm also touched by how Canadian your story is in terms of your relationship with Francine—that is, recognizing your own strength, recognizing the fact that you don't have everything, finding somebody else who has those things that you are missing, coming together as a partnership or in a group, and leaning on each other to achieve mutual goals.

The other thing that I thought was very Canadian was that you probably weren't together very long before you were showing your Canadian social conscience and reaching out to the international community in Jamaica, something that Canadians are wont to do.

Your group did that very Canadian thing as well, and made an impact on the lives of some other people, sharing with them what you had learned and the skills you had achieved in your group here in Canada. So we thank you for sharing your story.

I now will introduce the lady about whom you wrote.

Francine Arsenault has been active in the disability rights movement for the past 20 years. She was chairperson of Persons United for Self Help, or PUSH, from 1985 to 1988, and the president of PUSH from 1987 to 1992. Later she was chairperson of the Coalition of Provincial Organizations of the Handicapped. In 1994 this organization became the Council of Canadians with Disabilities. Ms. Arsenault continued as chairperson through 1996.

In 1995 she became chairperson of the International Centre for the Advancement of Community Based Rehabilitation, associated with the School of Rehabilitation Therapy at Queen's University. The part she plays in the development of the centre contributes beyond measure to raising the profile of disability issues internationally, enhancing the leadership role both Queen's and Canada are playing in community development.

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Francine was awarded an honorary doctorate of law by Queen's University and this was part of the biographical information they gave at that time. So I'm sure, Francine, it has been a thrilling thing for you to have one of your colleagues actually write about your contributions, and I thought you might like to say a few words to us today too.

Ms. Francine Arsenault (Individual Presentation): Thank you very much. It's not only a pleasure to have someone say these kind words, it's kind of embarrassing. I grew up in a Scottish family where you kept all the good things behind you and worked to get even better.

I am reminded, though, of a young girl who came and threw her arms around me in Indonesia. After I had talked about my life and the things I was doing, she said, “I never knew that it was possible for someone to love me or to have a family or to be married, but if you can do those things and still go on to do other things internationally and in your own country, I guess the role model that you are has given me courage to try.”

So if this story and anything that I've done that has helped other people to get courage to try things, then I guess it's worth while that we write it down and let other people read it.

When I work in other countries, the main thing they want to know is who we knew in government, if we had relatives who were in government, or what trick did we play to get the Canadian government to change its policies the way we have. When we tell them that what we had to do is talk and share and bare our souls sometimes, they think it couldn't have been that simple.

But I think the reality for the changing scene in Canada is just that. People who in the beginning were not able to get anyone to listen to them or felt that they had nothing they could speak about have gained courage from the last 20 years of seeing disabled people taking a stand and working towards their rights. And that model has made it possible for people who would stand in the background, always in the back...

When I was growing up I didn't have a special school that I trained in. I went to school like everybody else, because I had the luck of having an order of nuns who said it's our job to help these little disabled persons. So they gave me a chance, and I worked really hard there and got ahead so that they realized there were other things I could do besides hop up the stairs on crutches or be pushed in a side door or whatever it needed to be.

We learned how to do those other things that we were never given a chance to do. My dad didn't say to me, “You can't climb the tree like your brothers did.” He piled rocks around the bottom and helped me get up the tree. Once you let other disabled persons know that they have that possibility of doing things they didn't dream to do, then you see a magnificent change in them.

Here in Canada when I first went looking for a job when I finished high school, you had to be smarter than everybody else. You had to be able to say, yes sir, no sir, much nicer than everybody else. You had to be prepared to take on the extra jobs that somebody else wouldn't do because you wanted to get ahead and you wanted to keep your job. Everyone thought you were going to be sick and would be missing jobs. You had to prove to them that you would be there. If your tail was dragging, you went anyway because you wanted to prove that you could do the job as well or better than anybody else.

Now I think people have come to the realization that disabled people are no better or no worse than anybody else. We have our sick days. We have our bad days, our good days, the same as anyone else. So the expectations shouldn't be less or more. They should be the same as for everyone else.

Once you let disabled people know that not only do they have abilities they should increase, that they should bring forward, but they have a right to the same services and the same things as everybody else does, they become a powerful force. And that's what happened in Canada. Disabled people began to believe that they had the same rights as everybody else, and once they did recognize this fact, they began to let other people know they had that power.

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If 15% of the people in Canada are disabled and they have friends and relatives who would support them, that's a mighty big and powerful force when you come to elections and when you come to wanting things to happen in your community. Once we know that we have that power for change, we have to be very careful to be responsible and use that change in a way that is going to benefit everyone, not individuals, not certain areas, but everybody.

So at the Council of Canadians with Disabilities over the last ten years we have been—and still are—fighting for equal rights, and equal rights doesn't necessarily mean doing exactly what the guy beside you is doing. Sometimes it means you have to put in a voice computer, for instance, instead of a plain computer, so that somebody who is blind can use that computer. Sometimes it means putting a ramp in instead of stairs so that someone in a wheelchair can do the job just as well as anyone else, but they just need a different way to get there.

I've often talked to people who, when you say that you want equality, think it means “the same thing”. For instance, if I open a door for you, is opening that door going to be the same to somebody in a wheelchair? Of course it isn't. So when I talk about equality, I mean an equal playing field.

That doesn't necessarily mean a lot of dollars. People think that accommodation in the workplace and accommodation to having disabled people with them is a huge cost, and sometimes it can be, but I think the quality of work you get back equals the dollars that you put out.

In my case, accommodation, for instance, meant that when I went to be hired as a secretary and a bookkeeper, the boss told me I would have to take cheques around the five floors of the seniors' home where I was and get the people to sign their cheque at the end of the month. I suddenly realized that I could do the typing and do all the work I needed to do, but I couldn't walk that far. But the woman sitting beside me, who was the receptionist, said, “I talk on this phone day in and day out and I'm sick of talking. How would it be if I take the cheques around once a month and Francine does my phone?” As you can see, I have no trouble talking, so I did the phone.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

Ms. Francine Arsenault: Accommodation can be quite simple.

The other thing I need to say is that disabled people all around the world want the same thing. They want the same things you do. They want someone to love them. They want food in their stomachs and a roof over their heads and clothes on their bodies. They want to be respected for who they are and they want to contribute to their community.

I've seen some really bad cases in India. I've worked with disabled people who lived in the river bottoms when they were dried up and then rushed for the shore when the floods came. I've worked in Indonesia, in the mountains, where to have a cleft palate is considered a terrible disability. Even though the person can cook and sew, can do everything, because she looks the way she does, she can't get married. It's considered a very bad disability.

I think that in all of the cases I've seen around the world, disability is the same. It's just the degree that is different, as is the degree of the problems that happen in those countries because of how the society in those countries accepts it.

In Bosnia just a few months ago, I worked with people who have come through four and a half or five years of war. It's much harder for a lot of them because they had everything before, and now they've lost it. I've never been able to run, so although I dream about running I really don't miss it. I never did. I love high heels, you know, those great big high ones, but I've never walked on them, so I really don't miss them a lot. I just think about them. But people in Bosnia and Wayne and other people who have been injured have known how to do all these things before, so the adjustment time and the agreement to accept it is more difficult.

The good thing about receiving a disability later is that you're so damned determined to have everything back that you had before that you fight harder for it. If you never had it, you figure you don't deserve it, but if you had it, you want it back.

I think it's those people who had it and want it back who have been the driving force behind advocacy in the last few years. Particularly after the war, veterans wanted back what they'd had before, so that's why the major changes started.

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The biggest thing I fear in Canada right now is that we will lose the things we've gained over the last 20 years. When cut-backs happen, it's sometimes short-term gain and long-term pain for us. The effects are devastating for some disabled persons who were able to live in their homes and now cannot because they can't get attending care at home, and can't get the services they want.

When I stand in other countries and say we have a role model of how to succeed in Canada, I'm very much afraid that as I say it we may be losing what we've gained. So my main prayer is that we maintain and gain and continue to understand each other and work in partnerships so that changes can be made and the best potential of disabled people can be used.

I think that's about all I should say.

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Thank you, Francine. On behalf of all of us, I would like to thank you for the tremendous work you have done over the years, not only within the borders of our own country but also taking what you know and what we have learned here abroad, to places where they have little in the way of support. You have motivated them to reach out and ask for more.

I was touched by your pride in your own country and the policies of your government, compared with what you found in other places. But I think that all Canadians should be proud of you and your organization, because I believe it is the push that you put behind the organization that made some of these things happen.

The other thing you showed to us, having had your disability for all of your life, is your sensitivity to those who have lost something in the course of getting their disability. They have lost something that they knew and experienced and loved, whether it was Wayne and his athletic ability, or other people in the loss of things that they took pleasure doing. Your sensitivity to the other people who are disabled, I think, is probably what gives the group their group strength.

Your sense of power may be given to you by your father. It seems to me that you have empowered the disabled in Canada to come together and believe they can win, can get somewhere, can get these equality rights.

Talking about equality rights, we have established equality rights for the disabled in our Charter of Rights in Canada. That is probably one of the reasons why this year, when the Prime Minister went to New York to receive an award, an award for Canada, it was probably based upon the forward motion of our disabled community and the fact that we have established those equality rights in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

We were very proud of that moment of UN recognition of Canada. I don't know if everyone knows, but the Prime Minister received a cheque as part of the prize, and he decided to give that cheque to an organization called NEADS. The person who heads that organization is here with us today, Mr. Frank Smith, and I'd like to invite him to approach the table and tell us a little bit about his organization and the reception of that cheque.

Mr. Frank Smith (Coordinator, National Educational Association of Disabled Students NEADS): Thank you very much for that kind introduction. It certainly is a little bit of a surprise. I didn't expect to be asked to speak today.

I came to this meeting, like everyone else in this room, to acknowledge the recipient of the Centennial Flame Research Award today, Wayne Westfall, and also to acknowledge the significant achievements of Francine Arseneault with respect to disability issues in Canada and internationally for many, many years. That's the reason I came here today, and I was hoping I'd be able to sit quietly in the background.

But since you've called me to the table to say a few words, I would like to say that NEADS is an organization that has represented post-secondary students with disabilities in Canada since 1986, was very honoured in the first place to attend, with the Prime Minister and members of the Canadian delegation, the meeting in New York to participate in the awards ceremony that was conducted at the United Nations and to be part of the presentation to the Government of Canada of the Franklin Delano Roosevelt International Disability Award.

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I know our president was just thrilled to be part of the Canadian delegation, which included people such as Francine Arsenault, Lucie Lemieux-Brassard, Eric Norman, and real leaders in the disability community. I had a chance to speak with Kent after he came back from New York, because we had a board of directors meeting here in Ottawa, fortunately enough, the weekend following the FDR award ceremony, and Kent was telling me it was a tremendous experience for him personally and it was a great honour to represent the organization in New York.

As the recipient of the FDR International Disability Award grant, the association is planning to put the funds to good use. Presently we have a mentorship program, which is a partnership between our organization and national employers who are part of the employer advisory council to NEADS. This mentorship program started in its pilot phase over the past year, and we were able to involve a number of students from across Canada in very successful mentorship experiences with some leading national employers. So we will be using the funding we have received from the FDR International Disability Award for the second year of this program, the expansion of this program.

I'd just like to say a few more words about the association. If you're not familiar with NEADS as an organization, we were established in 1986 to represent post-secondary students with disabilities across Canada. The strength of our organization is in our membership, which is primarily college and university students from across Canada who have disabilities. The organization is very much a consumer organization, consumer-directed and consumer-focused. We have very strong representation in the provinces across the country, and we're very proud to be a member of the Council of Canadians with Disabilities. And of course Francine Arsenault has been a leading player in the Council of Canadians with Disabilities for many, many years.

The organization was thrilled to receive the acknowledgement, and as Kent Hehr, our president, said in his acceptance speech at the United Nations and to the Prime Minister, we're very much looking forward to working with the Government of Canada in the future to ensure that Canadians with disabilities have full access to post-secondary education. That is the goal we have as an organization, and we know it is something that, judging from the most recent budget, is important to the Government of Canada. And I know post-secondary access and transition from school to work issues are very important to members of this committee as well.

So thank you very much for acknowledging my presence here and the work of our organization. I'd like to offer our congratulations to Wayne Westfall and Francine Arsenault. We are very excited about what's ahead of us in the years to come and about working with the Government of Canada and other organizations in the disability community to further our agenda as an organization.

Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here.

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Thank you very much, Frank. We're thrilled that you received that cheque.

For the interest of the members of the committee, $50,000 was given to Frank's organization for post-secondary students with disabilities. So we wanted to hear about that.

Thank you, Frank.

We could take a minute now if any of the members of the committee would like to make a comment or ask a question. We'll start with Mr. Johnston.

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Mr. Dale Johnston (Wetaskiwin, Ref.): Thank you, Madam Chairman.

Congratulations, Wayne, on your presentation and on the fact that you were awarded this award. Actually, congratulations to all of you.

Francine, you said that people all over the world basically want the same things. They want a roof over their heads and sufficient nourishment and the ability to raise their families and live in peace. But I think you've demonstrated to us something that is far more significant than that. I mean, those are the basics, the essentials of life. What we'll be remembered for is our ability to inspire in others the desire to be the best they can be.

I think, Francine, from what we've heard about you, that's exactly the type of person you are, and I salute you for that.

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Thank you, Mr. Johnston.

Mr. Dubé.

Mr. Jean Dubé (Madawaska—Restigouche, PC): Thank you very much.

I also would like to congratulate you on your work, and also, Francine, for your devotion all these years. You mentioned at the beginning of your statement that it was the money, but I think it's more than just about money, what you've done here today. It's a very human gesture, and I have to tell you, it's very Canadian. It's a great message.

You are great example for people with disabilities. You are also a great example for people without disabilities. Sometimes we think life is tough, but when we read about what Francine has gone through, I have to tell you, it's not so tough for a lot of us. There's certainly a great example there. There are a lot of mountains to climb, and for some people it's more difficult. It's our role here to make them a little easier to climb. I hope we'll be able to do that in the coming years.

There's a lot that's been done in Canada, and we're certainly doing well as far as disability goes, but there's much more to do. I think we all agree with that at this table.

We look forward to working with you in trying to better this country for people with disabilities. I thank you, and again, I congratulate you.

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Madam Bradshaw.

Mrs. Claudette Bradshaw (Moncton, Lib.): To Wayne, congratulations, and to Francine, I'm doubly proud of you because I've been a Bradshaw for 23 years but I was an Arsenault for 25. When I go and look at my family tree, I certainly hope you're part of it, because the root you've shown us here today shows you're certainly building a strong forest for us.

You talked about your dad, and then you talked about yourself, and you talked about the model you are. That to me is so important.

I have a question for you. One of the populations that have always bothered me a lot...and I'm glad to hear that you have scholarships and you're going through university. I once asked a chief on a reserve what he wanted for his children. He said he wanted every child born on the reserve to end up with a degree so that they could become doctors, lawyers and politicians, and have influence.

One of the populations I care a lot about are the people on the street. I often see disabled people on the street. I was wondering if your organizations are working hard, with the services in place now, to try to mobilize them and integrate them back into our communities. Maybe we can talk about that later.

Francine, I hope you're wrong when you say we've gained a lot and hope we're not going to lose what we've gained. If I have a word of advice to give you, it's that you have such a national strength, and with your international strength, the stronger you get, then the more safe you are that you're going to keep what you have.

Wayne, again, congratulations.

Francine, puisque nous sommes des Arsenault, I'm doubly proud of what you've accomplished. Thank you very much for being here. You give us the strength to continue to believe.

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The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Thank you, Madam Bradshaw. Would any of our guests like to comment on the issue that was raised? Wayne or Francine?

Ms. Francine Arsenault: I would like to say that we're not doing nearly as much as I'd like about street people who are disabled. What we have been trying to do is make sure that our organizations are open for anyone to drop in and then make them aware of the skills training programs that are available to them.

It's very hard to find accessible housing, and some people, rather than be bumped upstairs or carried upstairs, are making a demand by being on the street. They're saying that there isn't enough; you have to make more. It's the statement of some of the people.

It's a truth I hate to admit, but some people find that you can make a lot of money begging on the street, and if they can make more money begging than they can in a job that they can get at a very low income, who am I to argue with what they're doing? We can only give them options, and that's what we're trying to show, that there are other options and then the choice is theirs.

Mr. Wayne Westfall: I'd also like to say that I think what you said, Ms. Bradshaw, about disabled street people is an example of how complex the issues are. We didn't see many street people at all ten or twenty years ago, but because of the complexity of our society and what's happening on a national and global basis, things happen here in our own communities that didn't used to happen. So if we can solve that problem of how you deal with a person with a disability who doesn't have a home, it certainly would help us learn how to deal with somebody who doesn't have a disability who also doesn't have a home.

Everything is really tied together, and I think people like Francine and me who have disabilities really want to be recognized as being equal. But also, by everybody learning to see how can our needs be met, then the needs of all vulnerable people can be met as well. So we provide a bit of a sketchbook of a larger pattern of our society.

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Madame Dalphond-Guiral.

[Translation]

Ms. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral (Laval Centre, BQ): First of all, I am very pleased to congratulate both of you, not only for what has been written but also for what has been done by you and not written about.

When you spoke, I had the feeling that, even in the most difficult situations, it is possible to find something positive. God only knows that we live in a society where many of us are relatively spoiled and often find it difficult to see the positive aspects. So I think that people like you, who are committed and courageous, are indeed role models.

I am going to come back to what Mr. Dubé said about your being a role model for people living with a disability, but you are even more a model for someone like me, around this table.

Societies are always changing because they are not static by nature. Madam Arsenault, you have had three children. I would like you to tell me how different the lives of your children may have been with respect to how they see the society they are living in and with respect to fairness among the various members of this society. I am sure that your children have learned things that they must communicate to others around them. I do not know what that might be exactly, but I would like you to talk to us about it.

[English]

Ms. Francine Arsenault: I used to fear that having my children was selfish on my part because I might have been putting a burden on them because I couldn't do everything that everybody else did. But then I found out I did a lot of things that other people didn't do either.

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My oldest son is an artist and a chef, and he finds in creativity that he can share a great deal of himself with other people, and I think that sharing is something we've learned together.

My daughter is a day care teacher here in Ottawa. She especially prides herself on working with people who have learning disabilities or behavioural problems, and I tend to think she learned some of the patience dealing with them because of the atmosphere we had around our home.

Over the years, our house has been filled with disabled people coming and staying with us, with children. Teenagers who were in trouble with their parents came and stayed with us. So our house was a busy place.

My youngest son is an engineer who works with electrical wheelchairs, stair treads and all this kind of thing, doing service for disabled persons, and my daughter-in-law is a nurse.

So they're all in service of some kind. Probably they picked some of that up from me.

But what I had hoped...and in some of the arguments I've had with this committee in past times representing the Council of Canadians with Disabilities was the fact that I didn't want my grandchildren to have to go through some of the things I went through, if any of my grandchildren were disabled. I didn't want them to have to struggle to get services.

I remember my mother going door to door and getting my relatives to line up to give blood transfusions because they wouldn't give me an operation until I had enough blood donated. I don't want them to ever have to do that. So when I see our health services being depleted, I panic. I want everybody to get back out there and put them in place.

My dad worked two jobs most of the time so that he could pay for surgery, and lots of times I had to wait two years because we couldn't save enough money to get a surgeon. That could happen here again, very easily, if we're not careful. So that's one of the reasons why I struggle.

I think you're right. I hope the role model has guided a future generation that will look to sharing more, understanding other people more, being more open, empathetic with people who are different in their community, and I do hope that we maintain services and things that we've gained in the past and not lose them.

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Mr. Wilfert.

Mr. Bryon Wilfert (Oak Ridges, Lib.): Thank you, Madam Chairman.

Certainly you both are outstanding ambassadors. Madame Arsenault, your life is certainly an inspiration to all, and Mr. Westfall, your written work is extremely important, not only for those people with disabilities but for those who do not. You both were champions, certainly in your communities, and particularly in Madame Arsenault's current activities, both nationally and internationally.

But it's very important in communities, where people live and where they work, that the message is certainly portrayed in terms of the fact that...I remember even 12 or 15 years ago we talked about cost for accessibility for buildings, for curbs, and so on. Today it's a matter of course. We talk about the building code, for example, in the province of Ontario. So it's important that we no longer look at it as a cost factor; we look at it as the normal practice.

I would agree with you that we have to be vigilant and make sure that all of us have that responsibility, and it's important.

I know in my own community we bought a fleet of new buses that have every feature you can think of in terms of the kneeling factor and the special lighting, and so on. The attitudes had changed a lot. People no longer say, gee, that's a lot of fancy items on there that you don't need. And it is well used. Instead of having a separate disability transit, we're now looking at simply having integrated transit, and I think the integration is what is really important.

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I admire both of you for your work, and again, I'd like to congratulate you.

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): Thank you, Mr. Wilfert. Thank you to all the members of the committee.

For your information, the next stage of this meeting will be the presentation of the award to our winner, Mr. Westfall. Subsequent to that, there will be a reception at the back of the room to which you are all invited. We hope you will stay and have a chance for some private conversation with the three guests at the table and some other guests who have attended out of interest on this particular subject.

Now I'll introduce to you Senator Gildas Molgat, who is serving as Speaker of the Senate, and Mr. Peter Milliken, member of Parliament for Kingston—which the story evolves around, actually—and the Deputy Speaker of the House.

We will now proceed to the back to give the award to Mr. Westfall.

Hon. Gildas Molgat (Speaker of the Senate): On behalf of all the members in both Houses of Parliament, Mr. Westfall, we are very pleased to be able to present to you this award for the very fine work you did on the biography of Mrs. Arsenault.

Mr. Wayne Westfall: Thank you very much.

Mr. Peter Milliken (Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons): It's a pleasure to welcome you to Ottawa and I'm delighted you've been awarded this award. I look forward to seeing you in Kingston from time to time.

Mr. Wayne Westfall: Thank you.

Mr. Peter Milliken: It's a pleasure.

[Editor's Note: Applause]

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Bonnie Brown): The meeting is now adjourned.