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Minutes of Proceedings

44th Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 103
Tuesday, December 5, 2023, 11:03 a.m. to Thursday, December 7, 2023, 10:23 a.m.
Webcast
Presiding
Hon. Hedy Fry, Chair (Liberal)

• Laila Goodridge for Marilyn Gladu (Conservative)
• Philip Lawrence for Marilyn Gladu (Conservative)
• Hon. Marco Mendicino for Anna Gainey (Liberal)
Library of Parliament
• Marion Ménard, Analyst
• Liane Tanguay, Analyst
As an individual
• Peter Menzies
• Pierre Trudel, Professor, Public Law Research Center, Université de Montréal, Law School
American Economic Liberties Project
• Erik Peinert, Research Manager
Center for Journalism and Liberty, Open Markets Institute
• Courtney Radsch, Director
Free Press
• Nora Benavidez, Senior Counsel and Director of Digital Justice and Civil Rights
The Hub
• Sean Speer, Editor at large
Unifor
• Marc Hollin, National Representative
• Julie Kotsis, Media Representative, National Executive Board
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, March 20, 2023, the committee resumed its study of tech giants’ current and ongoing use of intimidation and subversion tactics to evade regulation in Canada and across the world.

The witnesses made statements and answered questions.

At 11:18 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 11:19 a.m., the sitting resumed.

Questioning of the witnesses resumed.

Motion

Martin Champoux moved, — Whereas:

1- The news media is in crisis due to the dominance of foreign digital companies;
2- Hundreds of newsroom positions across Canada have been cut since the beginning of the year, and hundreds more are likely to be cut in the near future;
3- Canadian broadcasters, journalists’ associations, news unions and many experts agree that urgent action must be taken to ensure adequate, diversified news coverage in all regions of Quebec and Canada;
That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study to determine the appropriateness of holding a national forum on the media and that the Committee determine its terms of reference.
That the Committee hold a minimum of four meetings and report its recommendations to the House.

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Taleeb Noormohamed moved, — That the motion be amended by adding, before the word “holding” the following: “the national news sector”; by adding before the word “determine” the following: “invite sector experts and leaders to discuss and help”; by deleting the word “its”; by adding before the words “terms of reference” the words “the possible”; and by adding after the words “terms of reference” the following: Provided the sector initiates a forum, that governments at the national and provincial levels be invited to contribute to this debate”.

Debate arose thereon.

At 12:55 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 1:00 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Motion

Philip Lawrence moved, — That the committee do now adjourn.

The question was put on the motion and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Philip Lawrence, Martin Shields, Rachael Thomas, Kevin Waugh — 4;

NAYS: Martin Champoux, Michael Coteau, Anju Dhillon, Anna Gainey, Lisa Hepfner, Peter Julian, Taleeb Noormohamed — 7.

Motion

Taleeb Noormohamed moved, — That the sitting be suspended.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Martin Champoux, Michael Coteau, Anju Dhillon, Anna Gainey, Lisa Hepfner, Peter Julian, Taleeb Noormohamed — 7;

NAYS: Philip Lawrence, Martin Shields, Rachael Thomas, Kevin Waugh — 4.

At 1:05 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 08:15 a.m., on Thursday, December 7, 2023, the sitting resumed.

Subamendment

Peter Julian moved, — that the amendment be amended by adding, after the words “appropriateness of” the following: “the government providing support to”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Peter Julian and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Martin Champoux, Michael Coteau, Anju Dhillon, Lisa Hepfner, Peter Julian, Marco Mendicino, Taleeb Noormohamed — 7;

NAYS: Laila Goodridge, Martin Shields, Rachael Thomas, Kevin Waugh — 4.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Taleeb Noormohamed, as amended, and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Martin Champoux, Michael Coteau, Anju Dhillon, Lisa Hepfner, Peter Julian, Marco Mendicino, Taleeb Noormohamed — 7;

NAYS: Laila Goodridge, Martin Shields, Rachael Thomas, Kevin Waugh — 4.

After debate, the question was put on the motion, as amended, and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Martin Champoux, Michael Coteau, Anju Dhillon, Lisa Hepfner, Peter Julian, Marco Mendicino, Taleeb Noormohamed — 7;

NAYS: Laila Goodridge, Martin Shields, Rachael Thomas, Kevin Waugh — 4.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:

Whereas:
1- The news media is in crisis due to the dominance of foreign digital companies;
2- Hundreds of newsroom positions across Canada have been cut since the beginning of the year, and hundreds more are likely to be cut in the near future;
3- Canadian broadcasters, journalists’ associations, news unions and many experts agree that urgent action must be taken to ensure adequate, diversified news coverage in all regions of Quebec and Canada;
That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study to determine the appropriateness of the government providing support to the national news sector holding a national forum on the media and that the committee invite sector experts and leaders to discuss and help determine the possible terms of reference. Provided the sector initiates a forum, that governments at the national and provincial levels be invited to contribute to this debate.
That the Committee hold a minimum of four meetings and report its recommendations to the House.

At 8:52 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 8:58 a.m., the sitting resumed.

Erik Peinert, Nora Benavidez, and Sean Speer made statement and answered questions.

Motion

Martin Champoux moved, — That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the Committee summons Catherine Tait, CEO of CBC/Radio-Canada to testify on the subject of the job cuts announced at CBC/Radio-Canada for the year 2024, for a period of two hours.

That the Committee prioritize this motion over all other current and future studies and other Committee business, so that the Committee devote its first meeting at the return from the holiday recess to it.

Debate arose thereon.

At 9:53 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 9:54 a.m., the sitting resumed.

Amendment

Rachael Thomas moved, — That the motion be amended by adding after the last sentence the following: “and the committee report to the house that it calls on the government to instruct the CBC to immediately ban all executive bonuses.”.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The chair ruled the amendment inadmissible because the government cannot tell the CBC/Radio-Canada what to do.

Amendment

Rachael Thomas moved, — Rachael Thomas moved, - That the motion be amended by adding, after the last sentence, the following: “and that the committee report to the house that given these job cuts, it would be inappropriate for the CBC/Radio-Canada to grant bonuses to executive members.”.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Rachael Thomas and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Martin Champoux, Laila Goodridge, Peter Julian, Martin Shields, Rachael Thomas, Kevin Waugh — 6;

NAYS: Michael Coteau, Anju Dhillon, Anna Gainey, Lisa Hepfner, Taleeb Noormohamed — 5.

After debate, the question was put on the motion, as amended, and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Martin Champoux, Michael Coteau, Anju Dhillon, Anna Gainey, Laila Goodridge, Lisa Hepfner, Peter Julian, Taleeb Noormohamed, Martin Shields, Rachael Thomas, Kevin Waugh — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:


That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the Committee summons Catherine Tait, CEO of CBC/Radio-Canada to testify on the subject of the job cuts announced at CBC/Radio-Canada for the year 2024, for a period of two hours;

That the Committee prioritize this motion over all other current and future studies and other Committee business, so that the Committee devote its first meeting at the return from the holiday recess to it and that the committee report to the house that given these job cuts, it would be inappropriate for the CBC/Radio-Canada to grant bonuses to executive members.

Questioning of the witnesses resumed.

On motion of Michael Coteau, it was agreed, — That the committee do now adjourn.

At 10:23 a.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Geneviève Desjardins
Clerk of the committee