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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 11

Tuesday, November 15, 2011

The Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights met in a televised session at 8:46 a.m. this day, in Room 253-D, Centre Block, the Chair, Dave MacKenzie, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Françoise Boivin, Charmaine Borg, Hon. Irwin Cotler, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Robert Goguen, Jack Harris, Pierre Jacob, Brian Jean, Dave MacKenzie, Brent Rathgeber, Kyle Seeback and Stephen Woodworth.

Associate Members present: David Wilks.

In attendance: House of Commons: Lucie Tardif-Carpentier, Legislative Clerk ; Mike MacPherson, Legislative Clerk . Library of Parliament: Julia Nicol, Analyst.

Witnesses: Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness: Larisa Galadza, Senior Director, National Security Policy, Public Safety Canada; Mary Campbell, Director General, Corrections Directorate; Emmanuelle Deault-Bonin, Senior Policy Analyst, National Security Policy Directorate. Department of Justice: Catherine Kane, Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section; Paula Kingston, Senior Counsel, Youth Justice and Strategic Initiatives Section; Paul Saint-Denis, Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section.

Pursuant to the Order of Reference of Wednesday, September 28, 2011, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-10, An Act to enact the Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act and to amend the State Immunity Act, the Criminal Code, the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and other Acts.

Larisa Galadza answered questions.

The Committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 was postponed.

On Clause 2,

Jack Harris moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 14 on page 3 the following:

“3.1 Within three years after this Act comes into force, a comprehensive review of the provisions and operation of this Act, including a cost-benefit analysis of its implementation that incorporates the costs to the federal government and, to the extent possible, the costs to provincial and territorial governments, must be undertaken by any committee of the House of Commons or of both Houses of Parliament that may be designated or established for that purpose.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Jack Harris and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 6.

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 26 on page 3 with the following:

“(a) a foreign state, listed entity or other person that”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Irwin Cotler and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 32 on page 3 with the following:

“paragraph (a) or a terrorist group acting at the direction of or in association with such an entity committed an act or”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Irwin Cotler and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by deleting lines 1 to 4 on page 4.

Debate arose thereon.

By unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.

Robert Goguen moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 4 on page 4 with the following:

“Canada or the plaintiff is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident as defined in subsection 2(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Robert Goguen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 10; NAYS: 0.

Robert Goguen moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 4 on page 4 the following:

“(2.1) In an action under subsection (1), the defendant is presumed to have committed the act or omission that resulted in the loss or damage to the plaintiff if the court finds that

(a) a listed entity caused or contributed to the loss or damage by committing an act or omission that is, or had it been committed in Canada would be, punishable under Part II.1 of the Criminal Code; and

(b) the defendant — for the benefit of or otherwise in relation to the listed entity referred to in paragraph (a) — committed an act or omission that is, or had it been committed in Canada would be, punishable under any of sections 83.02 to 83.04 and 83.18 to 83.23 of the Criminal Code.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Robert Goguen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Clause 2, as amended, carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Clause 3 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 10; NAYS: 0.

On Clause 4,

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing line 39 on page 4 to line 5 on page 5 with the following:

“2.1 (1) For the purposes of this Act, a foreign state engages in the support of terrorism if the foreign state knowingly or recklessly provides, directly or indirectly, material support to a listed entity as defined in subsection 83.01(1) of the Criminal Code, or to a terrorist group as defined in that subsection acting on behalf of, at the direction of or in association with a listed entity.

(2) In this section, “material support” means currency or monetary instruments, financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel, transportation, and all physical assets, but does not include medicine or religious materials.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Irwin Cotler and it was negatived on the following recorded division: YEAS: Françoise Boivin, Charmaine Borg, Irwin Cotler, Jack Harris, Pierre Jacob — 5; NAYS: Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Robert Goguen, Brian Jean, Brent Rathgeber, Kyle Seeback, Stephen Woodworth — 6.

Clause 4 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.

On Clause 5,

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 10 to 12 on page 5 with the following:

“from the jurisdiction of a court in any proceedings that relate to the support of terrorism engaged in by the foreign state on or after January 1, 1985.

(1.1) A foreign state that, on or after January 1, 1985, engaged or engages in the support of terrorism is not immune from the jurisdiction of a court in any proceedings that relate to terrorist activity as defined in subsection 83.01(1) of the Criminal Code engaged in by the foreign state on or after January 1, 1985.

(1.2) Subsections (1) and (1.1) do not apply in respect of a foreign state that is

(a) designated as an extradition partner in the schedule to the Extradition Act; or

(b) bound by a bilateral extradition treaty with Canada.”

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 5, be amended by adding after line 35 on page 6 the following:

“(11) If a court of competent jurisdiction has determined that a foreign state that is set out on the list referred to in subsection (2) has supported terrorism, that foreign state is not immune from the jurisdiction of a court in any proceedings against it that relate to terrorist activity by the state, as defined in subsection 83.01(1) of the Criminal Code, on or after January 1, 1985.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Irwin Cotler and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 1; NAYS: 6.

Clause 5 carried on the following recorded division: YEAS: Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Robert Goguen, Brian Jean, Brent Rathgeber, Kyle Seeback, Stephen Woodworth — 6; NAYS: Françoise Boivin, Charmaine Borg, Jack Harris, Pierre Jacob — 4.

On Clause 6,

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 6, be amended by replacing lines 39 to 42 on page 6 with the following:

“agency of a foreign state or in respect of proceedings that relate to terrorist activity or the support of terrorism engaged in by a foreign state.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Irwin Cotler and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Clause 6 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 5.

On Clause 7,

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 7, be amended by replacing lines 2 to 5 on page 7 with the following:

“used for a commercial activity, terrorist activity or the support of terrorism;”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and the result of the vote was announced: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 5.

Whereupon, the Chair voted in the negative.

Accordingly, the amendment was negatived.

Irwin Cotler moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 7, be amended by replacing lines 13 to 16 on page 7 with the following:

“rendered in any proceedings that relate to terrorist activity or the support of terrorism.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Irwin Cotler and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Clause 7 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 5.

At 10:47 a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Jean-François Pagé
Clerk of the Committee

2011/11/30 8:15 a.m.