AANR Committee Meeting
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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
Meeting No. 61
Tuesday, April 8, 2003
The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs, Northern Development and Natural Resources met at 4:15 p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Raymond Bonin, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Gérard Binet, Raymond Bonin, David Chatters, Stan Dromisky, John Godfrey, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin, Anita Neville, Maurice Vellacott.
Acting Members present: Marcel Proulx for Julian Reed, Alan Tonks for Benoît Serré.
In attendance: From the Committees Branch: Susan Baldwin, Jeffrey LeBlanc, Michael Lukyniuk, Legislative Clerks.
In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Mary Hurley, Analyst.
Witnesses: From the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development: Warren Johnson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Trust Services; Andrew Beynon, General Counsel; Paul Salembier, Senior Counsel.
Pursuant to its Order of Reference of Monday, October 7, 2002, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-7, An Act respecting leadership selection, administration and accountability of Indian bands, and to make related amendments to other Acts (See Minutes of Proceedings, Monday, January 27, 2003, Meeting No. 14).
The Committee proceeded to Clause-by-Clause consideration of the Bill.
Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 is postponed.
On Clause 3
Yvan Loubier moved, --
That Bill C-7, in Clause 3, be amended by replacing lines 10 to 24 with the following:
“(a) to provide bands with more effective tools of governance on an interim basis pending the completion of self-government arrangements;
(b) to facilitate the fulfillment by the Government of Canada of its commitment to negotiate and implement self-government arrangements;
(c) to enable bands to respond more effectively to their particular governance needs and aspirations, including the ability to collaborate for certain purposes;
(d) to enable bands to design and implement their own regimes in respect of leadership selection, administration of government and financial management and accountability; and
(e) to protect the freedom of bands to choose their own means of achieving transparency, accountability and good governance in accordance with their traditions and cultures.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: David Chatters, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin, Maurice Vellacott (4)
NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Alan Tonks (7)
Pat Martin moved, --
That Bill C-7, in Clause 3, be amended by replacing lines 12 to 14 on page 3 with the following:
“pending the conclusion of self-government agreements;”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)
NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, John Godfrey, David Chatters, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Alan Tonks, Maurice Vellacott (10)
Yvan Loubier moved, --
That Bill C-7, in Clause 3, be amended by:
(a) replacing lines 12-14 with “pending the implementation of the existing right of indigenous peoples to self-determination;”
b) replacing lines 15-18 with “(b) to reduce the frequency and nature of departmental and ministerial intrusion into the governance and administrative decisions of First Nations”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)
NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, John Godfrey, David Chatters, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Anita Neville, Alan Tonks, Maurice Vellacott (9)
Dave Chatters moved, --
That Bill C-7, in Clause 3, be amended by adding after line 14 on page 3 of the following:
“(a.1) to enable bands to achieve independence in the management of their affairs, which entails independence from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and from other umbrella organizations such as tribal councils;”
It was agreed, by a show of hands – That the motion be deferred until Wednesday, April 9, 2003.
YEAS: 7
NAYS: 4
At 6:05 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 6:13 p.m., the sitting resumed.
Pat Martin moved, --
That the debate do now
adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 2
NAYS: 7
Pat Martin moved, --
That Bill C-7, in Clause 3, be amended
(a) by adding after line 14 on page 3 the following:
“(a.1) to facilitate the fulfillment by the Government of Canada of its commitment to negotiate and implement self-government agreements;”
(b) by replacing, in the French version, line 16 on page 3 with the following:
“(b.1)
de permettre aux bandes de satisfaire plus”
Debate arose thereon.
John Godfrey moved – That the amendment be further amended
(c) by replacing, in the French version, line 20 on page 3 with the following:
“(c.1) de permettre aux bandes de
concevoir”
By unanimous consent, the sub-amendment was agreed to.
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, as amended, it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: John Godfrey, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin, Maurice Vellacott (4)
NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Anita Neville, Marcel Proulx (6)
Pat Martin moved, --
That Bill C-7, in Clause 3, be amended
(a) by replacing, in the English version, line 18 on page 3 with the following:
“certain purposes;”
(b) by replacing lines 23 and 24 on page 3 with the following:
“ity; and
(d) to protect the freedom of bands to choose their own means of achieving transparency, accountability and good governance in accordance with their traditions and culture.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)
NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, John Godfrey, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Anita Neville, Marcel Proulx, Maurice Vellacott (8)
At 6:50 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 6:51 p.m., the sitting resumed.
At 6:52 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 6:57 p.m., the sitting resumed.
Yvan Loubier moved, --
That Bill C-7, in Clause 3, be amended by replacing lines 23 and 24 on page 3 with the following:
“ity.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Yvan Loubier (1)
NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, John Godfrey, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Anita Neville, Marcel Proulx, Maurice Vellacott (8)
At 8:55 p.m., Maurice Vellacott moved – That the debate now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was agreed to by a show of hands:
YEAS: 6
NAYS: 1
At 8:55 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Elizabeth B. Kingston
Clerk of the Committee