NDVA Committee Meeting

MINUTES OF PROCEEDING
(Meeting No. 65)

THURSDAY, MAY 14, 1998

The Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs met at 9:10 o’clock a.m., this day, in Room 536, Wellington Building, the Chair, Robert Bertrand, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Robert Bertrand, Hec Clouthier, Art Hanger, Judi Longfield, John O’Reilly, David Pratt, George Proud, John Richardson and Pierrette Venne.

Acting Members present: Ivan Grose for Bob Wood and Janko Peric for Pat O’Brien.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Wolf Koerner, Michel Rossignol and Dave Goetz, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Department of National Defence: Col. A.F. Fenske, Office of the Judge Advocate General.

Pursuant to the Order of Reference of the House of March 31, 1998, the Committee continued its consideration of Bill C-25, an Act to amend the National Defence Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

The Committee proceeded to the clause by clause consideration of Bill C-25.

The Chair called Clause 1.

Clause 1 carried.

On Clause 2

Pierrette Venne moved, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 29 to 33 on page 3 with the following:

" 9. (1) The Governor in Council may appoint a barrister or advocate with at least ten years’ standing at the bar of a province to be the Judge Advocate General of the Canadian Forces."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on a show of hands.

Clause 2 carried.

Clauses 3 to 6 carried severally.

On Clause 7

Art Hanger moved, That Bill C-25, in Clause 7, be amended by replacing line 10 on page 8 with the following:

"appointed, on the recommendation of the standing committee of the House of Commons that normally considers matters relating to national defence, by the Governor in Council that are"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on a show of hands.

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25 in Clause 7, be amended by replacing, in the English version, line 19 on page 12 with the following:

"in the exercise or purported exercise of a power or in the performance or purported performance of"

Clause 7, as amended, carried on the following recorded vote:

YEAS: Hec Clouthier, Judi Longfield, Janko Peric, John O’Reilly, David Pratt, George Proud, John Richardson, Ivan Grose – (8).

NAYS: Art Hanger, Pierrette Venne –(2).

Clauses 8 to 10 carried severally.

On Clause 11

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25 in Clause 11, be amended by striking out lines 21 to 23 on page 13 with the following:

"(d) personal or movable property, including cash, found on the deceased person or on a defence establishment or other-"

Clause 11, as amended, carried.

Clause 12 carried.

On Clause 13

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 13, be amended by replacing lines 29 and 30 on page 14 with the following:

"(c) to receive and accept, on oath or by affidavit or otherwise, any evidence and other informa-"

Clause 13, as amended, carried.

Clauses 14 to 31 carried severally.

On Clause 32

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 32, be amended by replacing line 24 on page 19 with the following:

"Board, an Inquiry Committee established for the purpose of subsection 165.1(2) or 165.21(2), the Military Police Complaints Com-"

Clause 32, as amended, carried.

Clauses 33 to 40 carried severally.

On Clause 41

Art Hanger moved, - That Bill C-25 be amended by adding after line 18 on page 27 the following new clause:

" 41.1 The Act is amended by adding the following after section 156:

156.1 Notwithstanding any other provision in this Act or the regulations, such officers and non-commissioned members who are appointed as military police under the regulations for the purposes of section 156, shall report to the Judge Advocate General in matters relating to the investigation of alleged major disciplinary offences and criminal misconduct, whether those offences or that misconduct occurred in Canada or outside Canada."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on a show of hands.

Clause 41 carried, on division.

On Clause 42

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 31 and 32 on page 30 with the following:

"l'occasion de présenter leurs observations, l'officier qui a effectué une révision aux termes du paragraphe (2) peut rendre toute ordonnance"

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 27 and 28 on page 31 with the following:

"en liberté, commettra une infraction ou nuira à l'administration de la"

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by adding after line 13 on page 40 the following:

"(2.1) The Inquiry Committee is deemed to have the powers of a court martial."

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 23 to 25 on page 41 with the following:

"(2) Le juge-avocat général peut établir par écrit des"

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 30 on page 41 with the following:

"(3) Le juge-avocat général peut, par écrit, établir des lignes"

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by replacing, in the English version, lines 5 and 6 on page 42 with the following:

"instruction or guideline, or any part of it, to be available to the"

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by adding after line 2 on page 43 the following:

"(2.1) The Inquiry Committee is deemed to have the powers of a court martial."

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 4 on page 44 with the following:

"165.27 Le juge militaire en chef peut déléguer à un"

Clause 42, as amended, was allowed to stand.

Clauses 43 to 55 carried severally.

Clauses 56 to 81 carried, on division.

On Clause 82

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 82, be amended by replacing, in the English version, lines 34 to 41 on page 63 with the following:

"or cannot be supported by the evidence if the new finding could validly have been made on the charge to which the new finding relates and it appears that the service tribunal was satisfied of the facts establishing the offence specified or involved in the new finding."

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 82, be amended by replacing lines 5 to 13 on page 64 with the following:

"offender guilty, if it appears that the facts proved the offender guilty of the other offence and the service tribunal could have found the offender guilty of the other offence on the charge under section 133, 134 or 136 or on any alternative charge that was laid."

Art Hanger moved, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 82, be amended by replacing line 18 on page 70 with the following:

"appointed by the Governor in Council on the recommendation of the standing committee of the House of Commons that norma.lly considers matters relating to national defence."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on a show of hands.

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 82, be amended by replacing, in the English version, line 23 on page 73 with the following:

"in the exercise or purported exercise of a power or in the performance or purported performance of"

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 82, be amended by replacing line 24 on page 74 with the following:

250.2 No complaint may be made more"

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 82, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 2 and 3 on page 80 with the following:

"transmet au ministre, au chef d'état major de la"

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 82, be amended by replacing line 32 on page 88 with the following:

"martial, the Grievance Board, an Inquiry Committee established for the purpose of subsection 165.1(2) or 165.21(2), the Military"

Clause 82 was allowed to stand.

Clauses 83 to 89 carried severally.

On Clause 90

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 90, be amended by replacing line 33 on page 91 with the following:

Clause 90, as amended, carried.

Clauses 91 to 103 carried severally.

On Clause 104

Clause 104 was allowed to stand.

Clauses 105 to 123 carried severally.

On Clause 124

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 124, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 28 on page 101 with the following:

"Defence Research Board

Clause 124, as amended, carried.

Clause 125 carried

On Clause 126

On motion of John Richardson, it was agreed, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 126, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 5 on page 102 with the following:

Clause 126, as amended, carried.

Clause 127 carried, on division.

On Clause 128

Clause 128 was allowed to stand.

The Committee reverted to Clause 42, as amended.

Art Hanger moved, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 42, be amended by replacing line 32 on page 42 with the following:

"(1) The Governor in Council on the recommendation of the standing committee of the House of Commons that normally considers matters relating to national defence may"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on a show of hands.

Clause 42, as amended, carried.

The Committee reverted to Clause 82, as amended.

Art Hanger moved, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 82, be amended by replacing line 23 and 24 on page 70 with the following:

"but may be removed for cause by the Governor in Council on the recommendation of the standing committee of the House of Commons that normally considers matters relating to national defence."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on a show of hands.

Clause 82, as amended, carried.

The Committee reverted to Clause 104.

Clause 104 carried on the following recorded vote:

YEAS: Hec Clouthier, Judi Longfield, Pat O’Brien, John O’Reilly, David Pratt, George Proud, John Richardson, Bob Wood, Pierrette Venne.

NAYS: Art Hanger.

The Committee reverted to Clause 128.

Art Hanger moved, - That Bill C-25, in Clause 128, be amended by replacing lines 21 and 22 on page 102 with the following:

"Act, comes into force on the day this Bill receives Royal Assent."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on a show of hands.

Clause 128 carried.

The Title carried, on division.

Bill C-25, as amended, carried.

Ordered – That a reprint of Bill C-25, as amended, be printed for use of the House at report stage.

At 10:40 o’clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.