CHPC Committee Meeting
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Minutes of Proceedings
Thomas Owen Ripley answered questions.
The committee resumed its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.
The Committee resumed clause-by-clause consideration on Clause 7 of the Bill, as amended.
“9.2 (1) The Commission shall, for each regulation or order made, or condition imposed, under this Act in relation to an online undertaking, obtain an independent legal opinion as to whether any of the provisions of the regulation, order or condition are inconsistent with the protections provided to Canadians by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, particularly those relating to freedom of speech under paragraph 2(b).
(2) The Commission shall publish the independent legal opinion on its website within 10 days after obtaining it and shall cause it to be published in the Canada Gazette.”
At 4:31 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 4:42 p.m., the sitting resumed.
At 4:52 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 4:58 p.m., the sitting resumed.
STATEMENT BY THE CHAIR
As we have now reached the end of time allotted for consideration of Bill C-10, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts. I want to outline for members specific elements as to the conduct of proceedings in regard to the remaining clauses of the bill.
First, let me remind you of the terms of the motion adopted by the House on Monday, June 7, 2021:
“That, in relation to Bill C–10, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, not more than five further hours shall be allotted to the consideration of the committee stage of the bill; and
That, at the expiry of the time provided in this order, any proceedings before the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage on the said bill shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the bill shall be put forthwith and successively without further debate or amendment.”
I would like to inform the committee of certain important elements of this motion and provide you with two rulings regarding the Chair’s interpretation of this order of the House and previous orders adopted by this committee.
First of all, in respect to the end of debate, since the committee has not completed the clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill within the five hours provided in the House order, the Chair must put, forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment, each and every question necessary to dispose of the clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill. At this point, I must deal with all of the clauses that are left.
To explain this so that everyone understands, since we have arrived at the end of the five hours, decisions must be taken in regard to the remaining clauses of the bill and on the required motions to carry it, report it to the House and order a reprint. There are however amendments remaining in the package.
My first ruling will be on the remaining amendments, if any, from any Member who is not a member of a caucus represented on the committee:
RULING BY THE CHAIR
Pursuant to the routine motion adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, I have an obligation to put to a vote amendments from any Member who is not a member of a caucus represented on the committee left to deal with in the package of amendments. These amendments will be deemed moved when we get to the appropriate clauses.
My second ruling will be on all other amendments:
RULING BY THE CHAIR
If we have amendments from any Member of the committee left to deal with in the package of amendments, I will NOT be putting forward votes on those amendments as they are NOT deemed moved.
Whereupon, Anthony Housefather appealed the decision of the Chair.
The question: "Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?" was put and the decision was overturned on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 4;
NAYS: Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Heather McPherson — 7.
“9.2 (1) The Commission shall, for each regulation or order made, or condition imposed, under this Act in relation to an online undertaking, obtain an independent legal opinion as to whether any of the provisions of the regulation, order or condition are inconsistent with the protections provided to Canadians by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, particularly those relating to freedom of speech under paragraph 2(b).
(2) The Commission shall publish the independent legal opinion on its website within 10 days after obtaining it and shall cause it to be published in the Canada Gazette.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Alain Rayes and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 5;
NAYS: Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 6.
“9.2 The Auditor General of Canada shall annually audit all the orders, conditions, regulations and decisions of the Commission with respect to the discoverability of programs to determine whether they are in compliance with best practices and the principle of arm’s length decision-making and whether the decision-making has provided any online undertaking with an undue commercial or political advantage and shall make a report of the audit to the Commission and the Minister.”
The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it was beyond the scope of the Bill, as provided on page 770 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Third Edition.
Whereupon, Alain Rayes appealed the decision of the Chair.
The question: "Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?" was put and the decision was sustained on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 6;
NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 5.
Clause 7, as amended, carried on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Heather McPherson — 7;
NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 4.
On Clause 8,
Anthony Housefather moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing lines 26 to 29 on page 8 with the following:“(3) Paragraph 10(1)(b) of the Act is replaced by the following:
(b) prescribing what constitutes a Canadian program for the purposes of this Act and, in doing so, shall consider
(i) whether Canadians own and control intellectual property rights over Canadian programs for exploitation purposes, and retain a material and equitable portion of their value,
(ii) whether key creative positions are primarily held by Canadians,
(iii) whether Canadian artistic and cultural content and expression are supported,
(iv) whether, for the purpose of subparagraph (i), online undertakings and programming undertakings collaborate with:
(A) independent Canadian producers,
(B) a Canadian broadcaster producing its own content, or
(C) a producer affiliated with a Canadian broadcaster, and
(v) any other matter as directed by the Governor in Council;”
The question was put on the amendment of Anthony Housefather and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Heather McPherson — 7;
NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 4.
(a) by replacing lines 12 and 13 on page 9 with the following:
“(7) Paragraph 10(1)(f) of the French version of the Act is replaced by the following:”
(b) by replacing lines 19 to 26 on page 9 with the following:
“(7.1) Paragraphs 10(1)(g) and (h) of the Act are replaced by the following:
(g) respecting the carriage of any foreign or other programming services by broadcasting undertakings;
(h) for resolving, by way of mediation or otherwise, any disputes arising between broadcasting undertakings concerning the carriage of programming services;”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Martin Champoux and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson — 2;
NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 9.
At 5:21 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 5:22 p.m., the sitting resumed.
Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Elizabeth May for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:
That Bill C-10, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 26 on page 9 the following:
“(7.1) Subsection 10(1) of the Act is amended by adding the following after paragraph (g):
(g.1) prescribing the requirements for Canadian producers who are creating content for foreign undertakings and online undertakings that provide a social media service to be eligible to apply for the Canada Media Fund;”
The question was put on the amendment of Elizabeth May and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson — 2;
NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 9.
(h.1) respecting unjust discrimination by a person carrying on a broadcasting undertaking and undue or unreasonable preference given, or undue or unreasonable disadvantage imposed, by such a person;
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Anthony Housefather and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Heather McPherson — 7;
NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 4.
Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Elizabeth May for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:
That Bill C-10, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 30 on page 9 the following:
“(i.1) respecting the establishment of a framework for contractual practices between independent producers and programming undertakings and online undertakings;”
The question was put on the amendment of Elizabeth May and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson — 2;
NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 8.
“(j) respecting the audit or examination of records, books of account and software of persons carrying on broadcasting”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Martin Champoux and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson — 2;
NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 9.
Martin Shields moved, — That the committee do now adjourn.
The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 9;
NAYS: Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson — 2.
At 5:34 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.