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Minutes of Proceedings

44th Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 114
Monday, November 18, 2024, 11:02 a.m. to Wednesday, November 20, 2024, 6:33 p.m.
Televised
Presiding
George Chahal, Chair (Liberal)

Library of Parliament
• Aimée Belmore, Analyst
• Sarah Houle, Analyst
Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
• Yves Giroux, Parliamentary Budget Officer
• Jason Stanton, Advisor and Analyst
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, June 6, 2024, the committee resumed its study of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

Yves Girioux made a statement and, with Jason Stanton, answered questions.

Motion

Julie Dabrusin moved, —

That the committee resume consideration of her motion, as amended, moved on Monday, October 7, 2024, which read as follows:

Given that:

• There are 1,600 abandoned and orphaned oil wells in Alberta polluting farmland, waterways, and air;

• The number of abandoned wells in Alberta are set to increase by an additional 1,800 to 2,000;

• These additional abandoned wells will cost more than $200 million to clean up;

• The Government of Alberta sent back $137 million because they failed to use the funds provided by the Government of Canada to clean up abandoned wells and create jobs in the pandemic;

• The Government of Saskatchewan used their allocated funds in their entirety to clean abandoned wells and create jobs;

• Companies who abandon wells and fail to pay for their cleanup negatively impact provincial taxpayers and municipalities;

• Orphaned and abandoned wells present an economic opportunity to support energy solutions like geothermal energy.

The Standing Committee on Natural Resources begin a five-meeting study on the impact of this failure to clean these wells, the impacts of the pollution from not cleaning up abandoned and orphaned wells, the costs of cleaning up abandoned and orphaned wells, the federal regulations to hold companies to account for well cleanup, and the potential opportunities associated with cleaning up abandoned wells, and report its findings to the House of Commons.

and of the amendment of Laila Goodridge, moved on Wednesday, October 30, 2024, which read as follows:

That the motion be amended by replacing all the words before the words “the federal regulations to hold companies to account for well cleanup” with the following: "The Standing Committee on Natural Resources begin a three-meeting study on abandoned and orphaned wells in Canada,".

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rachel Blaney, Julie Dabrusin, Yvonne Jones, Majid Jowhari, Viviane Lapointe, Peter Schiefke — 6;

NAYS: Earl Dreeshen, Ted Falk, Jeremy Patzer, Mario Simard, Shannon Stubbs — 5.

The committee resumed consideration of the motion, as amended, of Julie Dabrusin moved on Monday, October 7, 2024, which read as follows:

Given that:

• There are 1,600 abandoned and orphaned oil wells in Alberta polluting farmland, waterways, and air;

• The number of abandoned wells in Alberta are set to increase by an additional 1,800 to 2,000;

• These additional abandoned wells will cost more than $200 million to clean up;

• The Government of Alberta sent back $137 million because they failed to use the funds provided by the Government of Canada to clean up abandoned wells and create jobs in the pandemic;

• The Government of Saskatchewan used their allocated funds in their entirety to clean abandoned wells and create jobs;

• Companies who abandon wells and fail to pay for their cleanup negatively impact provincial taxpayers and municipalities;

• Orphaned and abandoned wells present an economic opportunity to support energy solutions like geothermal energy.

The Standing Committee on Natural Resources begin a five-meeting study on the impact of this failure to clean these wells, the impacts of the pollution from not cleaning up abandoned and orphaned wells, the costs of cleaning up abandoned and orphaned wells, the federal regulations to hold companies to account for well cleanup, and the potential opportunities associated with cleaning up abandoned wells, and report its findings to the House of Commons.

and of the amendment of Laila Goodridge moved on Wednesday, October 30, 2024, which read as follows:

That the motion be amended by replacing all the words before the words “the federal regulations to hold companies to account for well cleanup” with the following: "The Standing Committee on Natural Resources begin a three-meeting study on abandoned and orphaned wells in Canada,".

The debate continued.

At 12:33 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 12:41 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 1:00 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 4:36 p.m., on Wednesday, November 20, 2024, the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed, — That the committee meet in camera, in an informal meeting, with a delegation from Finland on Monday, November 25, 2024¸ at 10:30 a.m.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed, — That the committee meet, in an informal meeting, with a delegation of members of the Parliament of Finland, on Monday, November 25, 2024, and that the committee defray the hospitality expenses related to this meeting.

ORDERED, — That the clerk of the committee make the necessary arrangements for an informal meeting on Monday, November 25, 2024, with a delegation from Finland.

The committee resumed consideration of the motion, as amended, of Julie Dabrusin moved on Monday, October 7, 2024, which read as follows:

Given that:

• There are 1,600 abandoned and orphaned oil wells in Alberta polluting farmland, waterways, and air;

• The number of abandoned wells in Alberta are set to increase by an additional 1,800 to 2,000;

• These additional abandoned wells will cost more than $200 million to clean up;

• The Government of Alberta sent back $137 million because they failed to use the funds provided by the Government of Canada to clean up abandoned wells and create jobs in the pandemic;

• The Government of Saskatchewan used their allocated funds in their entirety to clean abandoned wells and create jobs;

• Companies who abandon wells and fail to pay for their cleanup negatively impact provincial taxpayers and municipalities;

• Orphaned and abandoned wells present an economic opportunity to support energy solutions like geothermal energy.

The Standing Committee on Natural Resources begin a five-meeting study on the impact of this failure to clean these wells, the impacts of the pollution from not cleaning up abandoned and orphaned wells, the costs of cleaning up abandoned and orphaned wells, the federal regulations to hold companies to account for well cleanup, and the potential opportunities associated with cleaning up abandoned wells, and report its findings to the House of Commons.

and of the amendment of Laila Goodridge moved on Wednesday, October 30, 2024, which read as follows:

That the motion be amended by replacing all the words before the words “the federal regulations to hold companies to account for well cleanup” with the following: "The Standing Committee on Natural Resources begin a three-meeting study on abandoned and orphaned wells in Canada,".

Motion

Jeremy Patzer moved, — That the debate be now adjourned.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Charlie Angus, Earl Dreeshen, Ted Falk, Jeremy Patzer, Mario Simard, Shannon Stubbs — 6;

NAYS: Julie Dabrusin, Yvonne Jones, Majid Jowhari, Viviane Lapointe, Peter Schiefke — 5.

Motion

Julie Dabrusin moved, — The Standing Committee on Natural Resources invite the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources and Officials from the Department of Natural Resources to testify on the Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year 2024-25.

After debate, the question was put on the motion and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Motion

Mario Simard moved, — That, given the Parliamentary Budget Officer's statements in the Transmountain Pipeline System Report 2024 released on November 8, 2024, the Committee expresses concern about the financial uncertainty regarding the government's ability to sell the Transmountain Pipeline System at a price that avoids a net loss to taxpayers and asks the Chair to report to the House as soon as possible.

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Julie Dabrusin moved, — That the motion be amended by replacing the words “expresses concern about the financial uncertainty regarding the government’s” with the words “recommends the government should do everything in its”.

Debate arose thereon.

At 5:44 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 6:07 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

The question was put on the amendment of Julie Dabrusin and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Julie Dabrusin, Yvonne Jones, Majid Jowhari, Viviane Lapointe, Peter Schiefke — 5;

NAYS: Charlie Angus, Earl Dreeshen, Ted Falk, Jeremy Patzer, Mario Simard, Shannon Stubbs — 6.

The committee resumed consideration of the motion of Mario Simard, — That, given the Parliamentary Budget Officer's statements in the Transmountain Pipeline System Report 2024 released on November 8, 2024, the Committee expresses concern about the financial uncertainty regarding the government's ability to sell the Transmountain Pipeline System at a price that avoids a net loss to taxpayers and asks the Chair to report to the House as soon as possible.

The debate continued.

Amendment

Majid Jowhari moved, — That the motion be amended by adding after the words “to the House as soon as possible” the following: “and have the Government of Canada provide a response to this report pursuant to Standing Order 109”.

Debate arose thereon.

At 6:33 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Thomas Bigelow
Clerk of the committee