Issue 04

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 1, 1996
(Meeting No. 19)

[Text]

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 11:06 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 208, West Block, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Raymond Bonin, Maurice Dumas, John Duncan, John Finlay, Bernard Patry and Roseanne Skoke.

Acting Member present: Gary Pillitteri for Elijah Harper.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jane May Allain and Jill Wherrett, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development: Terry Henderson, Director General, Claims Implementation Branch; Sandy Jackson, Manager, Resource Development Impacts; Ken Marchand, Legal Advisor.

By unanimous consent, the Committee agreed to consider Bills C-39 and C-40 together.

The Orders of Reference dated Monday, June 17, 1996, being read as follows:

ORDERED,--That Bill C-39, An Act respecting the York Factory First Nation and the settlement of matters arising from an agreement relating to the flooding of land (York Factory First Nation Flooded Land Act) be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

ORDERED,--That Bill C-40, An Act respecting the Nelson House First Nation and the settlement of matters arising from an agreement relating to the flooding of land (Nelson House First Nation Flooded Land Act) be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Terry Henderson made an opening statement and, with Ken Marchand and Sandy Jackson, answered questions.

It was agreed,--That the Clerk be instructed to prepare for a clause by clause consideration of both Bills, pending there is no amendment proposed, on Thursday, October 3, 1996.

It was agreed,--That a meeting of the Steering Committee be held tomorrow, Wednesday, October 2, 1996, at 1:45 o'clock p.m. at the Foyer of the Central Block Building to consider Future Business.

At 11:44 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1996
(Meeting No. 20)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 11:06 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 208, West Block, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Jack Anawak, Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, Margaret Bridgman, Maurice Dumas, John Finlay, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jane May Allain and Jill Wherrett, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From York Factory First Nation: Chief Eric Saunders; Valerie Matthews-Lemieux, Legal Counsel. From Nelson House First Nation: Chief Jerry Primrose; Marcel Moody, Northern Flood Implementation Manager.

The Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-39, An Act respecting the York Factory First Nation and the settlement of matters arising from an agreement relating to the flooding of land and Bill C-40, An Act respecting the Nelson House First Nation and the settlement of matters arising from an agreement relating to the flooding of land (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, October 1, 1996, Issue No. 4, Meeting No. 19).

By unanimous consent, it was agreed,--That the Committee hear evidence concerning Bill C-39 and Bill C-40 at the same time.

On Clause 2

Chief Jerry Primrose, Marcel Moody, Chief Eric Saunders and Valerie Matthews-Lemieux made statements and answered questions.

The Committee proceeded to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-39.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 was postponed.

Clauses 2 to 5 carried severally.

It was agreed,--That Clause 6 stand and be considered at the next meeting of the Committee on Tuesday, October 8, 1996.

Clause 7,--carried.

By unanimous consent, the Committee proceeded to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-40.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 was postponed.

Clauses 2 to 5 carried severally.

It was agreed,--That Clause 6 stand and be considered at the next meeting of the Committee on Tuesday, October 8, 1996.

Clause 7,--carried.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed,--That Clause 1 of Bills C-39 and C-40, the Titles and both Bills stand until Tuesday, October 8, 1996.

At 12:41 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

George Etoka

Committee Clerk

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 8, 1996
(Meeting No. 21)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 11:08 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 209, West Block, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, Maurice Dumas, John Duncan, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.

Acting Members present: Herb Dhaliwal for Jack Anawak; Paul Steckle for John Finlay; Garry Breitkreuz for Margaret Bridgman.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jane May Allain and Jill Wherrett, Research Officers.

By unanimous consent, the Committee proceeded to consideration of future business.

The Chair presented the Fourth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure, which reads as follows:

- That Bills C-39 and C-40 be considered as scheduled at the next meeting of the Standing Committee and that after the testimony of the First Nations representatives, clause by clause consideration of both Bills will begin.

- That the motion proposed by John Duncan regarding First Nations on Quebec be studied at the earliest opportunity, after the consideration of Bills C-39 and C-40 has been completed.

On motion of John Duncan, it was agreed,--That the Fourth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure be concurred in.

At 11:10 o'clock a.m., the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-39, An Act respecting the York Factory First Nation and the settlement of matters arising from an agreement relating to the flooding of land (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, October 1, 1996, Issue No. 4, Meeting No. 19).

By unanimous consent, the Committee reverted to Clause 6.

After debate, John Murphy moved,--That Bill C-39, in Clause 6, be amended by replacing lines 28 to 40 on page 2 with the following:

``(a) the council of the York Factory First Nation,

(b) the York Factory First Nation,

(d) any group or unincorporated association that is wholly or substantially comprised of members of the York Factory First Nation,

(e) any unincorporated association established by the council of the York Factory First Nation,

(f) any share capital corporation the shares of which are wholly or substantially owned and controlled by the York Factory First Nation or members of the York Factory First Nation, and

(g) any non-share capital corporation the membership of which consists wholly or substantially of the York Factory First Nation or members of the York Factory First Nation''.

After further debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to.

Clause 6, as amended, carried.

Clause 1 carried.

The Title carried.

Bill C-39, as amended, carried.

ORDERED,--That the Chair report Bill C-39, with an amendment, to the House.

The Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-40, an Act respecting the Nelson House First Nation and the settlement of matters arising from an agreement relating to the flooding of land (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, October 1, 1996, Issue No. 4, Meeting No. 19).

By unanimous consent, the Committee reverted to Clause 6.

Bernard Patry moved,--That Bill C-40, in Clause 6, be amended by replacing lines 27 to 39 on page 2 with the following:

``(a) the council of the Nelson House First Nation,

(b) the Nelson House First Nation,

(d) any group or unincorporated association that is wholly or substantially comprised of members of the Nelson House First Nation,

(e) any unincorporated association established by the council of the Nelson House First Nation,

(f) any share capital corporation the shares of which are wholly or substantially owned and controlled by the Nelson House First Nation or members of the Nelson House First Nation, and

(g) any non-share capital corporation the membership of which consists wholly or substantially of the Nelson House First Nation or members of the Nelson House First Nation''.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to.

Clause 6, as amended, carried.

Clause 1 carried.

The Title carried.

Bill C-40, as amended, carried.

ORDERED,--That the Chair report Bill C-40, with an amendment, to the House.

John Duncan moved,--That this Committee urge the government to guarantee the rights of Canada's native people by protecting their Canadian citizenship and their right to remain part of Canada, if they so desire, in the event of a unilateral declaration of independence by the Parti Québécois Government.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS

Garry Breitkreuz
John Duncan--(2)

NAYS

Claude Bachand
Charles Hubbard
Herb Dhaliwal
John Murphy
Maurice Dumas
Bernard Patry
Elijah Harper
Paul Steckle--(8)

At 12:02 o'clock p.m., the Committee ajourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 31, 1996
(Meeting No. 22)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 11:11 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, Margaret Bridgman, John Duncan, John Finlay, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard and Bernard Patry.

Other Member present: Bob Ringma.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jane May Allain and Jill Wherrett, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development: Will Dunlop, Director, Resource Policy and Transfers Directorate; Ron Bailey, Lands Specialist, Resource Strategies; Brian Gibson, Senior Offshore Water Specialist; Water Resources Division, Environment and Renewable Resources Directorate; Mary Douglas, Legal Counsel, Legal Services; Tom Molloy, Chief Federal Negotiator, Nunavut Land Claim.

By unanimous consent, the Committee proceeded to consideration of future business.

The Chair presented the Fifth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure, which reads as follows:

The Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development has the honour to present its Fifth Report to the Standing Committee.

Your Sub-Committee met on Thursday, October 24, 1996 and agreed to recommend the following:

- That the Committee commence consideration of Bill C-51, the Nunavut Waters Act, on Thursday October 31, 1996, and that officials from the Department be requested to attend.

- That the Clerk of the Committee prepare a provisional budget for the cost of holding public hearings in Iqaluit on Bill C-51.

- That the Committee meet with the Committee on Constitutional Matters of the Parliament of Finland on Monday, November 4, 1996 at 3:30 p.m.

- That Elijah Harper be invited to move his motion on aboriginal rights on Tuesday, October 29, 1996.

- That the Clerk prepare a supplementary budget for the expenses incurred for the study of Bill C-6 and the anticipated expenses for Bills C-50 and C-51 and that the Chairman present the budget at the next meeting of the Budget Sub-Committee of the Liaison Committee.

On motion of John Finlay it was agreed,--That the Fifth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure be concurred in.

The Order of Reference dated Monday, October 21, 1996, being read as follows:

ORDERED,--That Bill C-51, An Act respecting the water resources of Nunavut, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 was postponed.

The Chairman called Clause 2.

Will Dunlop from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development made a statement and, with the other witnesses, answered questions.

It was agreed,--That the research officer prepare a chart of the groups representing the various interests in Bill C-51.

It was agreed,--That representatives from Nunavut Tunngavik Inc., Makivik Corporation, the Mining Association, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Nunavut Water Board be invited to appear before the Committee on Bill C-51, the Nunavut Waters Act.

It was agreed,--That the next meeting on Bill C-51 be held on Thursday, November 7, 1996.

It was agreed,--That the motion of Elijah Harper,--That this Committee urge the government to recognize the rights of Canada's Aboriginal Peoples throughout the entire nation of Canada, which are inherent in their presence in Canada since time immemorial and the rich culture and heritage that they have created, and further that the government recognize the rights guaranteed under s. 35 of the Constitution, which include Treaty rights, land claims settlements (Agreements), and self government, be placed on the agenda for the meeting of Tuesday, October 5, 1996.

At 11:44 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Christine Fisher

Clerk of the Committee

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 1996
(Meeting No. 23)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 11:06 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 208, West Block, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Jack Anawak, Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, Maurice Dumas, John Duncan, John Finlay, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard and Bernard Patry.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jane May Allain and Jill Wherrett, Research Officers.

In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), consideration of the motion of Elijah Harper,--That this Committee urge the government to recognize the rights of Canada's Aboriginal Peoples throughout the entire nation of Canada, which are inherent in their presence in Canada since time immemorial and the rich culture and heritage that they have created, and further that the government recognize the rights guaranteed under s. 35 of the Constitution, which include Treaty rights, land claims settlements (Agreements), and self government (See Minutes of Proceedings dated October 31, 1996, Issue No. 4).

By unanimous consent, it was agreed,--That minor changes be made to the text of the motion, which read as follows:

``I move that this Committee urge the government to reaffirm the rights of Canada's Aboriginal Peoples throughout the entire nation of Canada, which are inherent in their presence in Canada since time immemorial and the rich culture and heritage that they have created, and further that the government reaffirm the rights guaranteed under s. 35 of the Constitution, which include Treaty rights, land claims settlements (Agreements), and self government.''

After debate, Claude Bachand moved,--That the motion be amended by deleting the following words: ``throughout the entire nation of Canada''.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment, and it was negatived by a show of hand: YEAS: 3; NAYS: 5.

After debate on the main motion, John Duncan moved,--That the motion be amended:

a) by deleting the following words: ``which are inherent in their presence in Canada since time immemorial'';

b) by adding immediately after the word: ``rights'', the following word ``and''; and

c) by deleting the following words: ``and self government''.

After debate, by unanimous consent, it was agreed,--That the French version of the motion be amended to reflect the English wording, by adding immediately after the word ``inherents'', the following words ``de par leur présence au Canada depuis toujours''.

The amended motion in French is as follows:--Que le Comité exhorte le gouvernement à confirmer de nouveau les droits des peuples autochtones du Canada dans toute la nation canadienne, droits inhérents de par leur présence au Canada depuis toujours, à la richesse de la culture et du patrimoine qu'ils ont créés, et que de plus le gouvernement confirme de nouveau les droits garantis en vertu de l'article 35 de la Constitution, qui comprennent les droits conférés par traité, les règlements de revendications territoriales (accords) et l'autonomie gouvernementale.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment, and it was negatived by a show of hands: Yeas:1; Nays: 7.

After debate, the question was put on the motion as amended, and it was agreed to, on the following division:

YEAS

Jack Anawak
Elijah Harper
Claude Bachand
Charles Hubbard
Maurice Dumas
Bernard Patry--(7)
John Finlay

NAYS

John Duncan--(1)

By unanimous consent, it was agreed,--That the Chair be mandated to inform the House of the Committee's decision by a way of a Report.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed,--That the Clerk provide the Members of the Committee with a short description of the procedure followed in the House on Committee's Reports.

At 12:11 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Georges Etoka

Committee Clerk

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 1996
(Meeting No. 24)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 9:36 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 200, West Block, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Jack Anawak, Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Finlay, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard and John Murphy.

Acting Member present: Garry Breitkreuz for John Duncan.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jane May Allain and Jill Wherrett, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated: James Eetoolook, First Vice-President; Alex Campbell, Executive Director; Alan Braidek, Legal Counsel; Lois Leslie, Legal Advisor; Paul Okalik, Advisor. From the Nunavut Water Board: Thomas Kudloo, Chairman of the Board; Philip Dipizzo, Executive Director; Alastair Lucas, Legal Counsel. From the Nunavut Planning Commission: Dick Spaulding.

The Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-51, An Act respecting the water resources of Nunavut (See Minutes of Proceedings of Thursday, October 31, 1996).

James Eetoolook and Lois Leslie made statements and, with the other witnesses from Nunavut Tunngavik Inc., answered questions.

Thomas Kudloo, Philip Dipizzo and Alastair Lucas, from the Nunavut Water Board, made statements and answered questions.

It was agreed,--That a letter from the Nunavut Impact Review Board presented by Alastair Lucas be filed as an Exhibit with the Clerk of the Committee (Exhibit ``A'').

Dick Spaulding, from the Nunavut Planning Commission, made a statement and answered questions.

It was agreed,--That officials from the Department be asked to attend on Tuesday, November 26, 1996, to address concerns on Bill C-51 raised today by the witnesses.

It was agreed,--That the Chairman be authorized to submit the Committee's budget in the amount of $50,261 to the Budget Sub-Committee.

At 12:00 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 26, 1996
(Meeting No. 25)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 11:08 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 112-N, Centre Block, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Jack Anawak, Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Duncan, John Finlay, Elijah Harper, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jane May Allain and Jill Wherrett, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development: Will Dunlop, Director, Resource Policy and Transfers Directorate; Tom Molloy, Chief Federal Negotiator, Nunavut Land Claim; Brian Gibson, Senior Offshore Water Specialist, Water Resources Division, Environment and Renewable Resources Directorate; Ron Bailey, Lands Specialist, Resource Strategies; Mary Douglas, Legal Counsel, Legal Services.

The Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-51, An Act respecting the water resources of Nunavut (See Minutes of Proceedings of Thursday, October 31, 1996).

The witnesses made statements and answered questions.

At 12:56 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 3, 1996
(Meeting No. 26)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 11:12 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Vice-Chairman, John Finlay, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Duncan, John Finlay, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard and Bernard Patry.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jane May Allain and Jill Wherrett, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada (ITC): Mary Sillett, President; From Makivik Corporation: Peter Williamson, Research and Special Projects; Michael McGoldrick, Spokesperson.

In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), the Committee resumed consultations with national aboriginal organizations (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Tuesday, April 30, 1996, Issue No. 6).

Mary Sillett made a statement and, with the other witnesses, answered questions.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed,--That the Committee congratulate Research Officer Jane May Allain on her appointment to the Department of Justice and thank Ms. Allain for her yeoman service to the Committee.

At 12:35 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 1997
(Meeting No. 27)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 9:13 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 705, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Duncan, John Finlay, Charles Hubbard, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples: Georges Erasmus, Co-Chair; René Dussault, Co-Chair.

In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108 (2), a briefing on the report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples (See Minutes of Proceedings dated February 11, 1997, Issue No. 4, Meeting No. 27).

By unaminous consent, the Committee proceeded to consideration of future business.

The Chair presented the Sixth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure, which reads as follows:

The Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development has the honour to present its Sixth Report to the Standing Committee.

Your Sub-Committee met on Tuesday, February 4, 1997 and agreed to recommend the following:

--That the Co-Chairs of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples be invited to meet with the Committee at the earliest opportunity.

On motion of John Murphy, it was agreed,--That the Sixth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure be concurred in.

The Committee commenced a briefing on the report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.

Georges Erasmus made a statement.

René Dussault made a statement and with Georges Erasmus, answered questions.

At 11:05 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Christine Fisher

Clerk of the Committee

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 1997
(Meeting No. 28)
The Evidence for this meeting is not available because it was held in camera.

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met in camera at 11:14 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 209, West Block, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Jack Anawak, Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, Margaret Bridgman, Maurice Dumas, John Finlay, Elijah Harper, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.

Acting Member present: Garry Breitkreuz for John Duncan.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.

It was agreed,--That the Minister and his/her officials be invited on Tuesday, March 4, 1997. That each be allotted a time period of one and a half hours (1 1/2 hours). Thirty minutes each for opening statements and the remainder for questions and answers.

It was agreed,--That the Committee invite the following groups to appear on Thursday, March 6, 1997:

1. AFN

2. Native Women's Association of Canada

3. Native Aboriginal Forestry Association

4. Congress of Aboriginal People

5. Georges Erasmus and René Dussault Co-Chairs of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples

It was moved,--That the Metis National Council be invited to appear with the other groups on Thursday, March 6, 1997. After debate there on, it was negatived on a recorded division.

It was agreed,--That each of the five organizations be allotted one and a half (1 1/2) hours. Thirty minutes for an opening statement and the remainder for questions and answers.

It was agreed,--That the Clerk write to all the bands who come under the AFN, inviting them to appear by videoconferencing or to submit a written brief.

It was agreed,--That the Clerk write to all Members of Parliament inviting them to notify any Aboriginal groups in their riding who might be affected by this legislation.

It was agreed,--That the hearings on Thursday, March 6, 1997 be from 8:30 o'clock a.m. to 1:00 o'clock p.m. and from 3:15 o'clock p.m. to 6:15 o'clock p.m.

It was agreed,--That the Committee commence videoconferencing across Canada during the week of March 10, 1997. The hearings will be from 9:00 o'clock a.m. to 7:00 o'clock p.m. Monday through Thursday and if necessary the Committee will hold hearings on Friday.

It was moved,--That a ``person'' from the First Nations be an ex officio member of the committee. After debate, thereon, it was negatived on a recorded division.

At 1:25 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Bill Farrell

Committee Clerk