:
I call the meeting to order.
Colleagues, thank you very much for your attendance here today.
Welcome to our distinguished guests. Let us first apologize for the brief interruption for votes, but as everybody here well realizes, this is something that does not always consistently control our time.
This is meeting number eight of the public safety and national security committee, and today's meeting is and will be televised, as agreed upon by all parties. We all should recognize that this meeting is dedicated to supplementary estimates (B), 2013-14.
Appearing before the committee today, we have the minister for the first hour, and in this particular case it was 11 until 12, so it will be up to the minister himself to decide whether or not he can stay after 12 o'clock, depending on what his commitments are. That latitude will remain with the minister.
So for the first hour we have the Honourable Steven Blaney, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. As well, of course, we have a number of respected senior officials here with us today, and we're delighted to have you all here for the examination of the supplementary estimates.
From the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, we have Deputy Minister François Guimond. From the Canada Border Services Agency, we have the president, Luc Portelance. From the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, we have Commissioner Bob Paulson; and from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Public Complaints Commission, we have Ian McPhail, interim chair. From Correctional Service Canada, we have Anne Kelly, senior deputy commissioner; and from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, we have Jeff Yaworski, deputy director.
Welcome to all of our guests, and thank you very kindly for coming to this meeting here today.
The prompter says we are in camera, but of course we are not in camera. I just reference that for any of my colleagues who had a concern.
Now, without delay, we welcome the opening comment from the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Dear colleagues, it is an honour to be here today. This is the first time I've appeared before the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security as the minister responsible for the portfolio.
I would first like to welcome the new members who, like me, are joining the committee.
Mr. Chair, thank you for running this committee, which does important work. Thank you for your work within the committee on very important matters. This is the first time I am attending a committee with such a wide table.
I belong to a department that will soon celebrate 10 years. It was created following the events in September 2001. My department comprises all the security agencies that work to protect Canadians.
I am accompanied by François Guimont, the deputy minister, Luc Portelance, from the Canada Border Services Agency, Mrs. Kelly, from the Correctional Service of Canada, and Mr. Paulson, RCMP commissioner, who spoke on the weekend about ensuring that Canadian information remains Canadian. I am also accompanied by Mr. Yaworski, from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. They have worked together on this, and I would like to congratulate them. We also have Ian McPhail, who plays an important role with the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP.
The purpose of my appearance here this morning is to seek your unanimous support for supplementary estimates (B) 2013-14.
[English]
There's a main item I will be seeking funding for, but I would like to lay out some of the more specific expenses that relate to the people accompanying me, which total $816.5 million.
There is a net $82.9 million for the Canada Border Services Agency, which is represented by Mr. Portelance here today, and that includes funding to fulfill commitments under the Beyond the Border action plan. The plan was agreed to between President Obama and the Prime Minister in 2011. Implementing it is a priority for the government. Projects to be funded through these estimates include developing a new shared entry-exit program to strengthen the integrity of Canada's border and immigration programs; implementing the interactive advance passenger information initiative to screen international air travellers prior to their departure for Canada; continuing work to implement pilot projects for the integrated cargo security initiative; and enhancing the trusted trader and trusted traveller programs, better known as the NEXUS program.
These programs will build on our government's strong record of protecting our borders. Since 2006, we have increased the number of front-line border officers by 26% and we have removed more than 115,000 illegal immigrants.
[Translation]
The supplementary estimates (B) also includes a net increase of $31.4 million for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. That includes $7 million for injured officers and transfers from other departments to fund RCMP services, including first nations policing.
As for the Correctional Service of Canada, a net amount of $4.7 million is intended in large part to cover salary increases for front-line correctional officers.
[English]
For the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, an increase net of $4 million is needed, mostly to recover costs related to existing program expenditures.
Finally, a net increase of $4.7 million is needed for the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, part of which will help fund new elements of the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP.
[Translation]
Peripheral spending totals $127 million of the total $816 million requested in the supplementary estimates (B).
I would now like to talk to you about the heart of today's budget request, which is $688.9 million, or 84% of the net total of the increase requested in these supplementary estimates.
[English]
This past June, historic floods hit southern Alberta, an event that the Insurance Bureau of Canada identifies as the most expensive natural disaster in Canadian history. These estimates seek $689 million for the disaster financial assistance arrangement, known as DFA, a cost-sharing program that helps provinces and territories cover exceptional costs of natural disasters that they cannot be reasonably be expected to pay for themselves.
The breakdown of these costs goes like this: $100 million would go towards the 2011 flooding in Manitoba; $75 million would go for the flooding in Saskatchewan in 2011; and $5 million would go for the 2012 flooding in New Brunswick. We also had flooding in Alberta, where the amount of $9 million is planned; and $500 million will go towards advance payments to Alberta for the 2013 floods.
In light of these exceptional costs, our government has committed to set aside up to $2.8 billion in funds to provide assistance to the Province of Alberta over the coming year. So 84% of the request this morning is related to natural disasters; of this, $500 million is for the advance payments in Alberta.
[Translation]
Unfortunately, that's not all. The government also acted quickly to rectify the situation in Lac-Mégantic, Quebec. Although man-made disasters do not usually fall within the scope of our natural disaster plans, which do not apply to human-induced events, the government agreed to contribute $60 million to support recovery and reconstruction in Lac-Mégantic. On November 21, 2013, Prime Minister Harper announced an additional $95 million in support for decontamination, an amount that will be included in future supplementary estimates.
[English]
These estimates also seek approval to transfer $25 million from Public Safety Canada to the RCMP to pay for the federal share of policing costs for RCMP services in some first nations and Inuit communities across Canada. In March our government reaffirmed our commitment to the first nations policing program. My predecessor, Minister , announced the five-year renewal of the program, along with $612.4 million over five years. And we continue to work with provinces, territories, and first nations and Inuit communities to sign multi-year agreements under the FNPP, the first nations policing program, which helps ensure professional, dedicated, and responsive policing services in approximately 400 first nations and Inuit communities in Canada.
In a nutshell, you can see from these supplementary estimates that our government's public safety priorities are clear. We are focusing on securing our borders, namely with the Beyond the Border initiative, ensuring our correctional system actually corrects criminal behaviour, and we are supporting and standing up for communities in their time of need following a disaster.
As you can see this morning, the supplementary estimates are quite clear. As I've mentioned, 84% is related to natural disasters in part of the DFA program; the other part is, as described, the adjustment to the different agencies, with one same goal: to increase the safety of Canadians.
With that in mind, Mr. Chair, I'd be more than open to answering questions the members may have.
:
Thank you for the question, Madam James.
Indeed, no, they have not materialized. Ms. Kelly can attest to the evidence. In fact, we are closing prisons—one in Quebec, one in Ontario. The amount of double bunking is as low as 20% in our facilities, and is expected to go down.
The fact is that we feel it's important to keep criminals behind bars. We are happy to see that the crime rate is still decreasing in this country, and we are moving forward with the agenda to make sure that those who commit violence and represent a threat to society are kept behind bars.
To the specifics of your question, I can refer to Ms. Kelly. But the apocalyptic projections that were made have not materialized. There is a steady pace of criminals behind bars, but one has to take into account the increase in the population.
Madam Kelly, would you like to add something?
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to welcome the new minister to the public safety committee. I look forward to having the chance for more dialogue with the minister on a more regular basis perhaps than we had with the previous minister.
Obviously, public safety is a challenging portfolio, given its breadth, and I would like to thank all the officials who are with the minister today. It's a clear indication of the responsibilities that come under the minister. My sympathies are with the new minister; I think it's extra challenging given the record of the previous minister. My disappointment is that the supplemental estimates should have provided you with a chance to address some of these outstanding concerns.
My colleagues will have questions in a number of areas, but I want to start by asking about what has now become a crisis in our prison system, and this has been documented in the annual report for 2012-13 by the Correctional Investigator. In there, he makes reference to conditions in our prisons that are much like those of the late sixties and early seventies, which led to prison riots. I think this is a very serious concern.
There's a growing prison population, and despite members here today congratulating themselves on not reaching the worst predictions, we have a steady growth in the prison population. We now have the highest prison population we've had in our history at a time when crime is going down. The Correctional Investigator said very clearly that this growth is policy driven, not crime driven. It's a result of the decisions of the government to incarcerate more people, rather than to focus on rehabilitation.
The minister has had the recommendations in this annual report since June 28, so my disappointment in the supplemental estimates is that there's no response to the urgent concerns raised by the Correctional Investigator. He talks about the tensions caused by overcrowding and double bunking. I find it particularly misleading to talk about being entitled to a private room. Double bunking is placing two prisoners in a cell designed for one, and all the criminal justice literature around the world shows that this practice leads to an increase in violence and tension within prisons. If the minister actually has a study showing differently, I would invite him to table that study with this committee.
The Correctional Investigator, in particular, in his report focuses on the failures to meet the rehabilitation needs of aboriginal and visible minority offenders. Both of these are vastly overrepresented in prison custody, and he points to the lack of culturally appropriate rehabilitation programs for both aboriginal people and visible minorities.
I'm asking about these issues because the failures of the correctional system have a direct impact on public policy. If offenders leave the system without being rehabilitated, it will result in future victims of crime. My question very specifically is, why is there no response whatsoever in the supplemental estimates to the annual report of the Correctional Investigator?
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Garrison. That's a fairly detailed question that calls for a rather detailed response.
The correctional investigator did in fact issue a report that the people of Correctional Services are analyzing. They will consider his recommendations and issue directives in that regard. Please stay tuned for follow-up on the Correctional Services report.
You spoke about Canada's prison population, but I would like to point out that Canada's population has never been this high. There is a correlation between the population and the number of criminals. Canada's population is currently over 30 million, and our federal prisons currently house about 15,000 inmates. That's too many, but if someone has committed serious and violent crimes or is a threat to society, it is important to not release them too soon and to prevent them from committing other offences. Those people need to be behind bars.
Mr. Garrison, I live in the Lévis—Bellechasse riding. Someone from the municipality of Armagh, which is in that riding, was attacked by a repeat offender. The National Parole Board report stated that the individual was still a threat to society, yet he was released. I think Canadians are tired of having dangerous criminals on the streets endangering people's lives. That's what my predecessor, Vic Toews, was committed to and he was quite successful. I am very proud of the work he and his predecessors did. I am also very proud of the agenda that our government has put forward to make our streets safer.
With respect to correctional services, I've had the opportunity to visit minimum, medium and maximum-security detention centres. In all cases, I got an idea of all the measures implemented so that inmates, particularly aboriginals, had access to a rehabilitation program that took their profile into consideration.
It's obvious that the aboriginal inmate population has increased. That's why Correctional Services has made a considerable effort to deal with that segment of the population in our institutions. There are areas that take into account their aboriginal practices and beliefs. We also use specialized staff. A number of measures have been taken. As you know, Canada is a leader in rehabilitation, especially so that inmates can gain the aptitudes and skills so that once they are released, they have the competencies the labour market is looking for.
Your question is fairly broad. To come back to the last point you raised, I'd like to point out that fewer than 20% of inmates double-bunk in our prisons, which is very low. It's important to remember that being in prison isn't a luxury. The New Democrats are against abolishing old age security benefits for inmates, but there comes a time when we have to stop maintaining an unbalanced system. I hope that we can count on your support to find a balance between the victims and inmates when it comes to the measures we are going to put forward.
Minister, a previous question by my friend across the way had to do with some programming. In my riding of Northumberland—Quinte West, we have one of Canada's largest federal penitentiaries, Warkworth Institution. Many times I've done tours there.
I know there was a special building constructed specifically for first nations, for our aboriginal communities, to learn to be proud of their culture, to learn that how you get over some of the issues surrounding...it is by instilling, going back to, the proud heritage they have, and teaching them skills.
You'll have to forgive me, Ms. Kelly, because I forget the name of the program specifically.
As well, when I attended Frontenac Institution about two years ago, we learned how inmates were learning how to operate a laundry facility, let's say, within the institution, actually servicing more than one institution. They learned certain skills that they were able to transfer over to hotel management and hospitals, etc.
In addition to that, they were building portable offices—
:
As I mentioned previously, the program worked very well. The $400 million was allocated to the provinces and territories based on their population. They were able to hire police officers. It was a very good program.
We think the program achieved its objectives: police officers were hired, they were incorporated into the police forces and, now, they are working. That is why we ended the program. It wasn't an ongoing program, but a temporary one.
Now I'll get to your more specific question.
Some elements of the department's programming deal with crime prevention. We have the National Crime Prevention Centre. It's at headquarters, but it also has ramifications in the regions. We allocate funds, a program of about $40 million, for various initiatives in the regions that are designated as being a priority, so that the initiatives have a positive impact on the provinces and territories where those programs are implemented. The programs are also variable. Obviously, the programs can change depending on the priorities determined by the federal and provincial governments.
We also have the Kanishka project, and $10 million has been invested in it. The project's objective is to understand the causes of criminal behaviour. Some of those elements are related to components of criminal behaviour in youth. So there is a grant program that supports activities, educational or otherwise, across the country.
Finally, we have a cross-cultural round table made up of Canadians of various ethnic backgrounds. It is very important and has been around since 2006. I'd like to stress this activity. I am often at that table—
It is a particularly difficult and delicate situation with respect to the member you're referring to, who has been under the care of doctors and has been trying to get better, having encountered some occupational stress injuries during the course of his duties.
It was very awkward and disappointing to see how, despite extensive efforts by our commanders in New Brunswick and other staff, we were unable to dissuade him from going to the media. I was pretty disappointed, frankly, to see that story. I'm still trying to figure out what the story was, and I was sad for the member. I think his colleagues were sad for him. It was all very embarrassing, I think, not just for the force, but for Canadians.
I suppose it did raise some issues with respect to managing members or employees of organizations, particularly those engaged in public safety, who are prescribed medical marijuana, and the propriety of that in the first instance, and then the issue as to whether or not there needs to be some accommodation of providing spaces at work, and so on.
Let me just say that while he was taking his medication, this officer was never in duties that would have been remotely understood to have been police-related. In fact, he is fully off duty right now. We're working with him to try to help him get better. We had to take some decisive actions to make sure this situation wasn't exploited by people who wanted to exploit this poor member.
I feel very embarrassed for the member, and hopefully we can help him along.
It's a pleasure to be at this committee. This is my first time appearing here, so I have a couple of questions, and bear with me, please.
We hear a lot about the security of our borders and how we need to be doing more, and yet the very government that talks about border security all the time announced major cuts, I would say, in its 2012 budget—$143 million by 2015 to CBSA and $195.2 million by 2015 to the RCMP.
We know from the Customs and Immigration Union that 325 jobs on the front line of border crossings across the country will be cut. The intelligence branch of the CBSA has been hard hit, losing 100 positions, and 19 sniffer dog units—considering we've just been talking about marijuana—are being slashed due to the budget reductions.
What kind of an impact is this actually going to have on our border security? We're not talking just theoretical. We're talking about actual bodies who are needed at the borders who are not going to be there.
:
First, I welcome the opportunity to clarify the record in terms of the impact on the border.
In general terms, the numbers you've quoted are accurate. The CBSA, like all other departments, contributed to the effort in fighting the government deficit, so we contributed $143 million. That number is certainly accurate.
The efforts the CBSA made were to protect the integrity of managing the border. I can assure you, and I am highly confident, that we've achieved that in terms of the manner in which we undertook those cuts. For instance, about half of those cuts—close to $70 million—were achieved by the streamlining of internal services. This is mostly headquarters support functions and the associated responsibilities.
We also streamlined a lot of the programs. We found efficiencies in programs.
Where we didn't cut was what we call the front line, so for the services we provide in the airports and at the land border, for instance, we did not conduct any reductions in staff.
:
I really do appreciate the opportunity to speak to this rather important issue.
The whole concept of managing exit information in Canada is really the cornerstone of the modernization of managing Canada's border. Historically, Canada has not collected information on individuals leaving the country, whether they be Canadians or non-Canadians. As such, it has been impossible to reconcile the entries into and the exits out of Canada.
Canada and the United States are two of the few remaining countries that don't do this. Anyone who has travelled in Europe recently will know that upon leaving Europe you will be encountering an individual who will ask you for your passport information and so on.
This is a fairly significant portion of the Beyond the Border action plan. Last June—on June 30, to be precise—we undertook to work with the U.S. We began the project of exchanging information on non-Canadians and non-U.S. citizens at the land border. We are currently working on the next steps. They are articulated clearly in the Beyond the Border action plan, which targets full implementation by June 30, 2014.
Again, this is a fairly significant area in terms of allowing us to reconcile entry and exit and to effectively manage Canada's border.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I wish we had more time to talk about the issue of racism, which was raised in the Correctional Investigator's report, but I want to make it clear that no one, not the Correctional Investigator or anyone on this side, is accusing our correction officers of being racist. What we're talking about is a failure of the system to respond to the correctional needs of aboriginal people and visible minorities within the system so they can return to society as contributing members.
I want to return to another matter that the Correctional Investigator calls “a dramatic reversal in terms of principles and standards”. He's talking about double bunking here, as it interferes with relocation and also creates unsafe work environments for corrections officers.
The new policy in corrections removes two principles. Our policy used to say that “single occupancy accommodation is the most desirable and correctionally appropriate method of housing offenders.” The second quote is that “double bunking is inappropriate as a permanent accommodation measure within the context of corrections.”
What I'm asking about is that now that we're at the highest levels of double bunking we've ever seen—26% on the Prairies—what is the correctional justification for double bunking? Not “what's the need to accommodate”; we know there's growth in population and there's a need to accommodate people. But what is the correctional justification for this? Why have these principles, which were long-standing principles of our corrections system, been removed?
:
Thank you very much, colleagues. I appreciate your cooperation today.
We will now be voting on the supplementary estimates (B), and there are nine sections. We will have to do them one at a time; they cannot be done en masse.
The committee should also be notified that we can adopt them—which is hopefully where we are going with this—but the committee can also reduce or negative each one, and of course you cannot increase the amount before you here today.
We will start.
PUBLIC SAFETY AND EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS
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Vote 5b—The grants listed in the Estimates and contributions..........$714,000,000
Canada Border Services Agency
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Vote 10b—Operating expenditures..........$35,718,818
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Vote 15b—Capital expenditures..........$40,937,047
Canadian Security Intelligence Service
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Vote 20b—Program expenditures..........$5,178,867
Correctional Service of Canada
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Vote 25b—Operating expenditures..........$5,592,264
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
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Vote 45b—Operating expenditures..........$172,950
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Vote 50b—Capital expenditures..........$157,575
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Vote 55b—The grants listed in the Estimates and contributions..........$5,833,485
Royal Canadian Mounted Police Public Complaints Commission
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Vote 65b—Program expenditures..........$4,289,937
(Votes 5b, 10b, 15b, 20b, 25b, 45b, 50b, 55b, and 65b agreed to on division)
The Chair: Shall I report the supplementary estimates (B) 2013-14 to the House?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Some hon. members: On division.
The Chair: We'll have a recorded vote.
[See Minutes of Proceedings]
The Chair: Colleagues, just before we break, we also had requests for information from Mr. Bélanger to Ms. Kelly and also to Mr. Paulson. The first one, of course, was on the plans in the budget for repairing the existing prisons. The second one is for the past cost of the RCMP move from Mr. Paulson.
Yes, Ms. James.