As we continue our cross-country meetings, I want to welcome here today Eugénie Depatie-Pelletier, a research associate of the Canada Research Chair on the International Law of Migration, University of Montreal.
As you're aware, we're the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration of the House of Commons. We've been mandated to hold hearings on three very important items--temporary and foreign workers, immigration consultants, and Iraqi refugees. We will be meeting, hopefully, in all the provinces. We started in British Columbia and we're working our way east. Today it's here, and tomorrow Fredericton and Halifax, and on to St. John's, Newfoundland.
We're going to hear, by the time we're through, about 50 panels of witnesses who want to present their views on any of these items that we have been mandated to hear. Our committee, as you're aware, is made up of representatives from all parties in the House of Commons.
We want to welcome you and thank you for coming here today to make your views known. Generally when we have a panel, we will allow about seven minutes for individuals to present, and then we'll go to committee members who might want to make comments or ask questions. In your case today, of course, it's only one, so I don't think we're going to hold you to seven minutes.
You have a presentation to make, and we'd be very pleased and happy to hear your presentation. At the end of it all, we're going to write a report for the House of Commons, for the minister, with the help of our officials. We will be making recommendations to the minister on these three items that we've been mandated to hear. I would imagine these recommendations will be based upon what we've been hearing as we go.
So it's all yours. Take it away.
Thank you.
:
All the research in this field and all the documentation are in English. All the concepts have been defined in English. It will be very difficult for me to translate into French as we go along. Since most of the parliamentarians are francophone, I'll make an effort. I didn't know there was interpretation. I've brought some copies which, in fact, contain a lot more statistics and details on all the Canadian programs. I'll nevertheless file the copies in French and English for those who want to delve into the issue by reading the article I sent you.
My presentation will consist of three parts. There is the normative framework, the international conventions, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Canada's statutes, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. In fact, three-quarters of my presentation and most of the things contained in this article concern administrative directives. The Immigration and Refugee Protection Act is touched upon, but very little in fact. I'm mainly concerned with the directives of Citizenship and Immigration Canada and Human Resources and Social Development Canada.
Canada signed the Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, the Slave Trade, and Institutions and Practices Similar to Slavery in 1957. I don't know whether you've had time to read some of the article, but this convention concerns four types of practices similar to slavery: debt bondage, serfdom, abusive marriage and abusive adoption. The convention defines them very clearly. It states that, if someone cannot change status and is, under the law or an agreement, required to reside with and work for a specific person, that person has servile status. These are individuals whose situation is humanly similar to that of slaves, under the UN convention.
As you'll see in the report I'm going to leave with you at the end, there are approximately 60 programs for temporary foreign workers in Canada. This is very complex and very heterogeneous.
I'm concerned more particularly with five of those 60 or so programs. My research shows that there are approximately nine programs in Canada for what are called unskilled jobs. Of those nine programs, five violate the Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, the Slave Trade and Institutions and Practices Similar to Slavery. Everyone is very familiar with three of them: the Live-in Caregiver Program, or LCP, the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program, or SAWP, and the third, which is very much in fashion, the Pilot Project for Occupations Requiring Lower Levels of Formal Training.
In addition, two other programs violate the Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, the Slave Trade and Institutions and Practices Similar to Slavery. They are two programs established by Citizenship and Immigration Canada for foreign workers in unskilled jobs. They are authorized to work without work permits. There are two classes. The first concerns those that are called domestic workers who work for non-Canadians. That means that their employer is a foreign national in Canada, but these women are not subject to the Live-in Caregiver Program. However, they cannot change employers: they are required to live at the home of their employer in Canada. They are not free to change their status. They also have servile status.
The other type of program is for all temporary foreign workers in unskilled jobs who work for a foreign employer. For example, that could be a firm in China that pays them. Foreign workers whose employer is not Canadian can legally work in Canada without a permit. Those who have an unskilled job are not entitled to change status. They are required to work for that employer and, potentially, by contract, they may be required to reside at the home of an employer.
All these factors mean that there may be persons with servile status in Canada.
In Canadian terms, that means that the rights defined in section 2—which concerns the right of association—and section 7—which concerns the right to freedom and security of the person—of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms are vastly limited in the case of these persons in Canada.
In fact, the 25 pages of references are really interesting. You'll have to take a look at that. These programs were started in 1995. At first, they only concerned women from the Caribbean. Subsequently, they only concerned agricultural workers from the Caribbean. Now they concern all economic sectors of all countries. The origin of this program framework for invited workers dates back to 1955, before the Canadian Bill of Rights and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms were passed. So it's a very old framework, and the courts have never been asked to consider the question whether these restrictions of rights and freedoms were justified in a free and democratic society within the meaning of section 1.
Lastly, I have studied this entire question. In the past 50 years, sociologists, anthropologists, political scientists and lawyers have studied the question and noted systematic violations of rights and systematic abuses, especially against domestic workers and agricultural workers. This is now happening in new sectors. There is little documentation, but the Alberta Federation of Labour has gathered data on the subject. The Canadian Labour Congress has also done some work, but this is starting in other sectors. It has been years since sociologists surveyed cases in the agricultural sector.
You must go and look at the references at the end. However, all the newspaper articles are missing. I didn't have the time to insert them, because there are an enormous number of them. The systematic abuses are always typical cases. These involve, for example, individuals confined to the farm for seven months, who must work seven days a week, who do not have 15-minute breaks, who are not entitled to water, and so on.
I know you've heard a lot of presentations on cases involving domestic workers. So I won't dwell on that; I'll move on to the other type of violation. People bring in individuals from so-called “white” countries, such as Australia, United States, New Zealand, Armenia, the Czech Republic, all the European countries and what is called the white Commonwealth. They bring in unskilled workers who work as domestic or agricultural workers, but they aren't given open or semi-open permits; there are administrative restrictions. However, if workers are unfortunate enough to come from a poor country, they are given highly restrictive permits, permits that will subject them to servile status in Canada.
There is also a violation of equality rights among unskilled workers themselves, that is to say the right not to be subjected to discrimination on the basis of country of origin. There may be Australians and Guatemaltecs in agricultural sectors in Alberta, but the Guatemaltecs will have permits reducing them to servile status, whereas the Australians will have open permits and will be able to change employers and employment sectors.
All that to say that there is discrimination based on country of origin. That is illegal under the Charter. Considering, obviously, the scope of the human rights violations, what I'm saying is that these aren't appropriate or even proportionate measures, regardless of the policy objective that might originally justify treating Guatemaltecs and Mexicans in one way and treating French, Australians and Romanians in another way. So there is a form of racialization.
The other thing, obviously, is another type of discrimination, again based on the right to equality, but which more concerns discrimination based on gender; that is to say that we in Canada have decided to give more human rights to individuals who have... In fact, this is a kind of devaluing of female qualifications in sectors such as the care of elderly persons, child care, domestic work and so on. There is a devaluing of these tasks. As a result, we give less, we recognize fewer human rights and we give less protection to the human rights of individuals in that class, who have these kinds of qualifications, and we value other types of qualifications such as, for example, engineering degrees and so on. The rights of those who have engineering degrees, those who come to support our country in that field, not only human rights, such as, for example, the right to be able to change employers, and so on, but also the right to bring in one's family and the right to immigrate upon arrival, that is to say the independent right to seek permanent status.
As regards other types of workers who are as much in demand in Canada, if not more so, such as caregivers and those who provide home care, home care workers, we don't even recognize their human rights, that is to say we don't even allow them to change employers, even in cases where employers often violate their rights every day. But these women obviously won't risk... What's happening is that they technically have the opportunity to leave a job. However, that means jeopardizing the opportunity to work in Canada, to have permanent status in Canada. It's these kinds of things that these women can't really consider as an option.
In the recognition of temporary family reunification rights, that is to say the right to bring in one's family during the worker's stay in Canada, and also with regard to recognition of the right to seek permanent status, we see that there is discrimination based on gender, on sex, and also on the basis of certain countries of origin. For example, Guatemaltecs are commonly labourers, and most Guatemaltecs in Canada are never entitled to immigrate permanently. So there's a correlation between the type of qualifications and the country and type of qualifications and gender, as a result of which, even if these are workers who are increasingly needed in Canada...
I work in demography. We know that the population is aging, that there will be shortages in various employment sectors. In agriculture, the matter isn't complicated. Since 1955, labour shortages have been increasing. The same is true of work in the home, since women now work outside the home. This is a completely new economic step that we're preparing to take, not to mention the aging of the population and the fact that there will now be more home care. This is a sector that will begin to expand.
Instead of granting the right to immigrate based on the needs of the Canadian economy, there is discrimination. So we can keep these workers in place for years. I know of the case of someone who has worked in the fields in Canada for 27 years, but has no rights, no recognition in terms of belonging to Canada.
That was a brief summary of the issue concerning the Canadian Charter, and to tell you in what way these five programs violate the Canadian Charter, that is to say freedom of association, the right to freedom and security of the person and, lastly, the right to equality, that is to say to non-discrimination based on gender and country of origin.
What is happening is that, in addition to the Slavery Convention and the Canadian Charter, there is also another convention, the International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families. That convention isn't too much to take. We're talking about minimum standards for the protection of human rights. Canada hasn't ratified it for a billion reasons, more or less. I conducted a study for UNESCO and the reasons why Canada hadn't ratified the convention. You can consult it in the references.
I heard that for about 40 years people have come back under that program. Of course, they come, they work, and then they leave.
I'm really glad that you came and put this into this perspective, as we have heard about it. I've always had a certain misgiving about this temporary foreign worker program, because having people without the rights we are supposedly enjoying under the charter just doesn't seem to be quite right.
I would agree with you; I really have serious charter questions pertaining to the temporary foreign worker program. It reminds me of the time when we brought in the Chinese to build the railway; then, when that was done, we were going to shovel out the redundant.
There's a beautiful book out, written by Barbara Roberts, entitled Whence they Came: Deportation from Canada, 1900-1935. What it means is that where you came from is where you were deported to. It documents abuses that.... I wish I had brought the book; I was looking at it on the weekend. It talked about domestics. If they were raped and complained, they would be deported for being women of loose morals.
The mindset that exists in this department has always bothered me. They operated in the shadows back in those times, and in many ways they're operating in the shadows now, outside of the supervision of Parliament, really, and certainly, as much as possible, of the courts. There's always been a reluctance by the department to be answerable to the courts, and every time they try to do something, they're trying to get back to the “good old days”. I see this battle going on all the time.
This is what your presentation has very strongly reminded me of, and I would recommend that book to anybody around the table to read: Whence they Came, by Barbara Roberts. It really is a wonderful piece. I never cease to be shocked at how this happens.
The next question I have is, what kind of society are we building when we're relying more and more on temporary foreign workers? The issue that comes to my mind is the guest worker program in Germany and the problems it caused there. The other one is that with our present immigration system, 95% of the people who came here as immigrants at one point in time would not get in. I include people such as Frank Stronach of Magna International, Frank Hasenfratz, who's the head of Linamar Corporation, and also Mike Lazaridis, who invented the BlackBerry and employs 6,000 people. This strikes me. To me, it comes to asking what kind of country we are trying to build.
Do you have some comments on that?
:
I'm going to continue in the same vein as my colleague, since the question I wanted to ask first concerned the open permit and the closed permit.
Ms. Depatie-Pelletier, I must admit to you that I found your presentation very interesting, because, in it, I heard a point of view that I have never heard before. And I've been interested in immigration for a long time.
Would it be possible—if you can't do so immediately, perhaps you could do it at another time—to let us know how many persons, in the past year or past five years, have obtained what you call open permits, compared to those who have obtained closed permits, and in what employment categories?
I find this extremely interesting. We in Canada have always boasted, at least in the past 40 years, that we have an immigration policy that supposedly did not take into account country of origin, religion, and so on, whereas we know very well that's not entirely the case.
The example you give shows precisely that that is not entirely the case, and I'd like to take a closer look at that aspect.
Furthermore, with regard to temporary workers, I'm pleased that my colleague Andrew Telegdi gave that figure. We're trying to tell the public that the government considers immigration figures as overall figures. All right, we can very well do that, but it is important to see, in that overall figure, how many individuals are entitled to stay in Canada, and thus who are really immigrants, and how many are here for a limited period of time, either because they haven't yet been accepted as refugees, or because they are different types of temporary workers. We really have to make the distinction.
Canada's policy, the aim of which is to go and quickly select qualified workers in a very specific way, wouldn't be bad if it were accompanied by a number of actions.
First, when these people arrive in Canada, is there really a job for them and are they entitled to get that job? Often there are jobs, but Company X doesn't let them get them. The connection with what happens once they have crossed the Atlantic or the Pacific is important.
Second, it seems that this is a policy that looks at Canada's demographic and economic future through glasses that only show the short term. I believe that the best immigration policy Canada has had was the one under which we let people come into the country with their families within a short period of time. I'm thinking of the old waves of immigration that came from Italy, Greece and so on in the 1950s and 1960s. Those people, because they were already with their families, were able to settle immediately, and their children went to school. All that made these people Canadians.
Third, I know that it isn't very popular to say this, but, last year, I organized an evening event in Ottawa to commemorate the 15th anniversary of the first arrival of domestic workers from the Caribbean, that is to say from Barbados and Jamaica. You can say bad things about that program, but you can say good things about it as well. The program helped show Canadians that the presence of people of colour in Canada perhaps wasn't a bad thing, that those people were like everyone else, that those women had the right to settle and to bring in their families and so on.
So that opened the immigration doors to what we now call people of colour. There are positive aspects to that kind of program.
I would like to hear your comments.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, the basic act passed by the National Assembly in 1975 which our commission is responsible for implementing, recognizes and guarantees the same rights to all persons residing in Quebec, regardless of gender, colour, ethnic or national origin or the length of time they're on Quebec soil.
In recent years, in response to requests for investigations, consultation and legal education activities, the commission was led to take a look at the situation of two groups of temporary foreign workers: the workers from the Seasonal Agricultural Worker Program and those who came to Quebec under the Live-in Caregiver Program.
With respect to the seasonal agricultural workers, Quebec has had a shortage of unskilled agricultural labour for many years now. We took in 4,237 agricultural workers in 2006 and more than 5,300 in the 2007 season. The demand is constantly growing. The shortage of unskilled labour in Quebec's agricultural sector therefore does not appear to be declining.
As Class D unskilled temporary migrant workers, seasonal agricultural workers stay in Quebec for a maximum of eight months a year. They have very little or no knowledge of either of Canada's official languages. Their knowledge of our society, and of the recourse and services it offers is limited. They work in the regions, far from the major centres. They are dependent on their employer or their consulate in exercising recourse. Despite all the efforts made to inform and support these workers, they constitute a vulnerable group with regard to the exercise of rights, particularly those protected by the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms. That is why we offer the following thoughts and proposals.
Point one: Exercising the right of association. I'm referring to clause 3 of the Charter. When evaluating the offer of employment, one of the criteria examined by Quebec's Department of Immigration and cultural communities and Service Canada is to ensure that, and I quite: “The use of a foreign worker is not likely to undermine the settlement of a labour dispute”.
Under section 3 of the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, every person enjoys freedom of association. We've recently seen unionization requests highly contested by employers, mainly from groups of workers from Mexico. The commission wants to make the committee aware that employers are trying to use labour from countries other than Mexico in order to circumvent to unionization movement mainly associated with those seasonal agricultural workers. This kind of procedure, seemingly under a neutral rule, could have the effect of introducing discriminatory exclusion based on ethnic or national origin of those workers and undermine the equality rights protected by the Quebec charter. Tolerance of this kind of attitude on the part of Quebec and Canadian employers would also contravene the provisions of the international instruments, including the Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families.
Point two: Constitute an independent arbitration body. When a disagreement arises between a seasonal agricultural worker and his employer, the outcome of the dispute may result in the quick repatriation of the temporary migrant worker to his country of origin. Despite the major efforts made by the consulates and Human Resources and Social Development Canada to guarantee the rights of workers and employers in the event of a dispute, this situation establishes an employer-employee power relationship that is generally not seen among other Quebec workers. To ensure equal protection for the rights of seasonal agricultural workers, the commission proposes that an independent appeal structure be put in place with arbitration powers and empowered to rule on disputes between seasonal agricultural workers and their employers.
Point three: Introduce a worker representation mechanism. Under the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program, annual meetings are held to determine the working conditions that will prevail in the following year, such as wages, etc. They involve the various decision-makers such as Citizenship and Immigration Canada, Human Resources and Social Development Canada, employer representatives and representatives of the labour exporting countries.
To ensure equal protection of the rights of seasonal agricultural workers, the commission suggests that a worker consultation mechanism be introduced and that workers be granted a right of representation at those annual meetings.
The federal program involves provisions that may be extended in the contract of employment between the Quebec employer and the seasonal agricultural worker. That contract of employment is under Quebec's jurisdiction. Certain clauses cited in the contract are of concern for the commission from the standpoint of respect for and the exercise of rights and freedoms. I am referring, of course, to the residence obligation.
The contract states the worker's obligation to work and live in the place of work or in any other place determined by the employer and approved by the government's representative. That obligation, in the context of the Mexico and Caribbean agreement, also applies in the context of the agreement concerning workers from Guatemala.
Living on the employer's property puts workers in a situation in which, outside working hours, exercising their right to privacy under section 5 of the Quebec Charter could be subordinated to the owner-employer's right to limit access to his private property and lands. In those circumstances, the free movement of the workers or their visitors could be compromised. This limitation could constitute an obstacle to the exercise of their freedom of association and freedom of opinion, which are also protected by the Charter.
This freedom of association includes the freedom to join a union organization or any association working for everyone. The residence obligation does not apply to non-migrant Quebec workers. In that sense, it may undermine the exercise of temporary foreign workers' equality rights, which are protected under section 10 of the Quebec Charter, as a result of their ethnic or national origin.
In the case of Mexico and the Caribbean, the contract provides for the employer's obligation to provide workers with suitable accommodation free of charge. That provision results from the necessity for the employer to check the quality and safety of housing from time to time. Here too, the commission draws the committee's attention to the importance of respect for workers' privacy, but also to the inviolable nature of the residence as protected under sections 5 and 7 of the Quebec Charter. This employer-owner role thus places the farm business in an extremely delicate situation with regard to respect for the rights of housed workers.
Now I'll talk about the detainment of workers' identity papers. In February 2006, we acted on a request by the Coalition d'appui aux travailleurs et travailleuses agricoles to intervene with respect to the retaining of workers' identity papers by their employers.
To guarantee seasonal agricultural workers respect for their right to be helped and their right to privacy and to the free use of their property, the commission made a community reconciliation effort with all the players concerned by this problem. At the end of that consultation, the commission recommended that employers not detain workers' papers and that they take measures for workers to be able to safely retain their papers.
On this point, the commission recommends that this kind of provision be included in the binding contract between employer and employee.
:
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
As you know, the recourse available to immigrants in their capacity as temporary workers has developed to a certain degree in recent years in Quebec. In 2006, for example, 19,257 temporary work permits were granted to immigrants, and 5,229 extensions of stay for work purposes were granted to foreign nationals. Note that, in that year, Quebec took in 44,686 permanent immigrants. You have 45,000 permanent immigrants on the one hand, and approximately 25,000 persons receiving temporary permits on the other. I hope my figures will be corroborated by your expert. Those figures are obviously those for Quebec. I will only talk about Quebec today.
This situation obviously isn't unrelated to the improvement in the Quebec labour market. In a number of regions in the past two or three years, we've experienced a situation close to full employment, and we've begun to feel labour shortages at various qualification levels. I would emphasize this point: there are problems of recruitment and labour availability at various qualification levels, and not only among highly skilled workers. This phenomenon can only become amplified in the foreseeable future. Starting in 2011-2012, more people will leave the labour market, mainly to retire, then new workers will come into the labour force. And 2011-2012 is virtually the day after tomorrow. Using immigration is thus unavoidable, despite the productivity gains that we must achieve in other areas.
In recent years, the federal government has softened entry rules for temporary workers. In particular, it has increased the period for these foreign workers' stay from 12 to 24 months. The Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec hails this initiative. We all know that the temporary worker recruitment process is much simpler and quicker than the immigrant selection process, since the country's commitment to candidates, and vice-versa, is obviously not the same in both situations.
Thus far, most temporary workers welcomed in Quebec have been skilled workers coming to fill positions requiring certain skills that are hard to find in Quebec and Canada. There are two exceptions, of course: agricultural workers and domestic workers. When these sought-after skilled workers come on a temporary basis, they also enable certain businesses to respond to non-recurring intensive work periods for which it would be hard to hire permanent staff.
The unions have been very watchful of immigrant worker programs, fearing that the influx of large numbers of workers will lower wages and working conditions. In the present circumstances, we recognize from the outset that businesses must make the work attractive for people from here, particularly in terms of wages and working conditions. The fact nevertheless remains that some unskilled jobs find fewer and fewer takers among Quebeckers. There has recently been a lot of talk about seasonal agricultural workers, which clearly illustrates this situation because it has been around for a number of years.
Theoretically, at harvest time, there are enough students, unemployed workers, and welfare recipients able to work and other unoccupied individuals. So enough people are available to do the harvests, but that is not how it works in real life. This balance is entirely theoretical. In actual fact, if we didn't bring in nearly 5,000 Mexicans and other South Americans every spring and summer, the crops would rot in the fields. Last year, there were more than 5,000 of them. A distinction must therefore be drawn between the theoretical fit and the real possibility of recruiting workers, even in reasonable market conditions.
The question will soon arise about unskilled jobs that Quebeckers clearly do not want to occupy. Think of manual jobs in slaughterhouses, restaurants, hotels, warehouses and transportation. The response to these needs will inevitably come, at least in part, from immigration. We acknowledge from the outset that temporary workers are more vulnerable, due to the fact that their dismissal generally means immediate repatriation to their country of origin. As a society, and as members of the government, we therefore have a responsibility to put in place conditions in which the fundamental rights of these workers are respected and they are offered working conditions and a welcome that preserves their dignity and safety.
With that premise laid down, Quebec, like many other developed societies, can use the foreign method, on a temporary or permanent basis, to occupy jobs that are very hard to fill here at home for all kinds of reasons.
The businesses that we represent consider it highly important that they be able to resort to, call upon skilled and unskilled foreign workers in order to continue their development and wealth and job creation in Quebec.
Thank you.
:
Let me stop you there, Mr. Boudreau. There were 40,000 Hungarian refugees who ended up in Austria. Within less than six months, 90% of them were in Canada. So it's not impossible.
We have a bureaucratic system that doesn't respond to the needs of the market. The 2002 change in the point system was a total, complete, utter disaster. I agree with you wholeheartedly. We need mechanics, we need bricklayers, we need carpenters, we need people in the trades, and we need to be working with our unions, instead of setting up a situation where temporary foreign workers are brought in and create a very hostile environment.
The only thing I would say to your group is this: demand that the government pay attention to immigration. In the last two years—in less than one year—this government brought in two ministers, neither one of whom knew anything about citizenship and immigration. Unfortunately, while I'd love to say that the Liberal ministers preceding them were much more knowledgeable, they weren't.
Until we have the political will and the demand that we don't want to become a country of servitude, where we have temporary foreign workers.... Take a look at what happened to Germany, with their guest worker program. It can create all sorts of problems. Having a whole pile of single males coming here, with their families far away, is a horrific situation to work in.
Yes, I agree with you, it's totally inexcusable that it takes so long for people to get here. But I don't think the answer is to bring in temporary foreign workers who can be exploited. And I agree, in terms of why they haven't accessed the charter, that for a temporary foreign worker to get to the Supreme Court of Canada is virtually impossible. It's bad enough for groups that are from here to get there.
I think, Monsieur Boudreau, you might want to push the government and tell them not to take us down this path. I can tell you that bureaucrats have been trying to do this ever since I was first in this Parliament, and that goes back many years. They tried to put in place a system exactly like this, whereby we use people and discard them.
Well, the fact of the matter is that we need people to come in and to help build this country, and there are very legitimate situations for low-skilled people. Mr. Mike Lazaridis, the inventor of the BlackBerry I'm holding, would never get in here today. He is now employing 6,000 Canadians, and I'll bet you in the next year it's going to be 10,000 Canadians, and it's going to be more and more. Frank Stronach would never get into the country today. Frank Hasenfratz of Linamar would never get into the country today.
The problem we have is that we have a dysfunctional system, but dammit, we can demand from the politicians that they fix it, and demand it from whichever government is in power, because this exploitation that we're undertaking with temporary foreign workers is not helping to build Canada.
:
Thank you. The accent is obvious, I'll give you that. You do your best.
[English]
Obviously CSIP is never to be confused with CSIC, which is the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants, counting approximately 1,000 members who have indicated to us their desire to join and leave CSIC.
CSIP is chaired by Mrs. Nancy Salloum, and her association regroups 9,170 satisfied accredited members throughout the world, anxious to profess immigration duties with honour, competence, experience, and honesty.
Our philosophy as a unified regulatory body for our members is to represent the interests of the practitioners in Canada and abroad. We are therefore seeking self-regulation with federal recognition as paid representatives.
Mrs. Salloum requested that I be here today to represent her as CEO and as a member of her association since March 1 of this year. Now, if you permit me, I would like to give you a very brief overview of my business experience to date.
[Translation]
I started working as a senior information officer for two federal departments, Transport Canada, followed by Statistics Canada. They were temporary positions, and when my term was over, I was hired on a full-time basis by Consumer and Corporate Affairs Canada, from 1982 to 1987. I was given the title of Director of Communications for Quebec. That position was intended to bring together the main communications components, such as press relations, advertising, sales and so on. When I headed the communications service in Montreal, I was assigned to Ottawa to the same duties for three years.
Then, from 1987 to 1999, I was employed by Citizenship and Immigration Canada, which is a federal department, as an officer responsible for presenting cases, and I presented immigration cases in court. I was subsequently promoted to the position of minister's representative at that time. I had to appear in various immigration courts to defend the department's interests and those of the minister of the day. Since 1999, I have managed my private practice, where I advise clients and prepare the best programs to meet their needs, again in immigration.
I'll continue in English, with your permission.
[English]
I'm here today, however, to prove that CSIC has built up prejudice against certain individuals who, in the year 2004, were anxious to join their society as willing and experienced consultants. I am one of their victims, and I was not able to find out to my satisfaction why the society had created a wall of resistance against me.
To elaborate on the subject that I just mentioned, I would like to give you as proof two examples of the “less than acceptable” treatment that CSIC has given me in the past.
I took the knowledge test six times—March 27, 2006; June 26, 2006; October 30, 2006; December 17, 2006; March 25, 2007; September 30, 2007—at a cost of approximately $553 each time, payable in advance. I failed the written test every time. When I requested results of my failures, it was to no avail.
It is difficult for me, obviously, to understand, if my knowledge of the immigration law regulations was not sufficient, why did the government or Immigration Canada retain me on their staff for so long? My knowledge is also definitely superior to others with only one or two years of immigration experience in the private sector, as I have 12 years of experience in the private sector.
I entitled my number two example “Non-Respect of Confidentiality”.
On November 30, 2004, Maître Andrea Snizynsky of Montreal filed a complaint against me to CSIC, based on her opinion that only lawyers could file an application for judicial review with the Federal Court. Three years later CSIC exonerated me for lack of evidence.
Afterward, a very strange incident occurred while I was sitting in my office. I deposited the documents as proof with your secretary. On April 17, 2007, I received an anonymous fax containing signed letters and elements of my personal claim file. After research, I could not find the origin of the fax number, which was 514-344-8134.
I immediately informed CSIC's Maître Setton-Lemar, of the complaints and discipline department, of the incident. She agreed with me that the breach of confidentiality on the part of CSIC was evident and she would secure an investigator to look into the matter. May I point out that I never heard from her again on this subject, nor did anyone else contact me on said subject.
Now, this incident is a serious one. Who within the association had access to my personal file? Why are the claim files not kept in a secure environment? What were the intentions of the person who faxed me a copy of my file, making certain that his or her identity would be kept secret?
Perhaps the individual faxing me the documents had entertained the intention of sending them to the media, tarnishing my image forever. Was the CSIC investigation clean, exchanging evidence without my knowledge? These concerns were never answered.
There are two things to remember here: the lack of security for the protection of members' private files, and the lack of action on the part of CSIC to find out who sent me the documents and why.
:
Let me start officially by saying thank you very much, Mr. Chair and members of Parliament, for giving me an opportunity to present my views on the immigration industry, which is the only profession I practise or which I know how to do in Canada.
Let me give you a brief introduction about myself. My name is Prashant Ajmera. I am an Indian lawyer, and in India I practised in provincial high court, in the federal government attorney's office, for six years before I immigrated to Canada. I have been associated with an immigration law firm here in Montreal since I arrived in 1993 and have been practising as an immigration consultant since 1995.
Before coming to Canada, I was living and studying in the United Kingdom, where I completed my third degree, which was in corporate management. I applied for immigration to Canada under the Quebec program and arrived with my family—my wife and a daughter—in 1993.
The next point I want to talk about is in general the Canadian licensing system and CSIC licensing. As we all know, the Canadian Constitution has accorded the provincial governments the power to regulate the professions, except the profession of immigration consultant. However, over a period of time, the provincial governments gave these powers to professionals in each respective profession, who then formed the self-regulating licensing bodies for more than 45 professions in each province across Canada.
These self-regulating bodies are governed and managed by professionals who are practising in the same profession. It is but human nature that these professionals have had and will continue to have a vested interest in protecting their practice and interest by limiting the number of new professionals entering the profession. Certainly these self-regulating bodies cannot stop Canadian-educated professionals from entering into their profession. But each and every professional licensing body in Canada has been successful in making it difficult, or in many cases impossible, for foreign-trained professionals to acquire a Canadian licence to practise their profession in Canada.
These self-regulating bodies have successfully achieved their objective by setting impossibly high and impractical standards in the name of consumer protection and Canadian standards.
The Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants is a classic example of this flawed licensing system in Canada. It is managed by people who have vested interests in the immigration industry in Canada and set unrealistically high standards for consultants to obtain a licence to practise immigration law, in the name of consumer protection. This has resulted in the elimination of more than 800 consultants from the society. Many of these consultants continue to practise immigration without being a CSIC member or hiring the services of a CSIC member or a lawyer.
Concerning my experience with CSIC, rather than regulating and disciplining immigration consultants against whom complaints have been received by CSIC, the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants began to intimidate hand-picked consultants who had resigned and raised their voices against the society and its operation. This was very well orchestrated by the former CSIC investigator, now an Immigration and Refugee Board member, who appeared before this committee on March 12, 2008.
I myself was a victim of CSIC's high-handed policy. You can read about my experience in the detailed submission provided.
Regarding regulating immigration consultants in Canada, one of the general recommendations I would like to make is that there should be several classes of consultants, as most consultants do not and cannot provide services in every area of immigration law. These classes of consultants can be divided into consultants who wish to practise only refugee and detention law and wish to appear before the Immigration and Refugee Board; consultants who wish to process cases belonging to the economic class, temporary resident class, and family class; and consultants who wish to practise in every area of the immigration law.
The Law Society of Upper Canada in Ontario makes such a distinction when it certifies the lawyers who specialize in different areas of immigration law. In order to identify the problem in the immigration industry and regulate it, we need to look at each area of temporary and permanent immigration with a category to understand in which area the consumer may be most vulnerable and most likely to be exploited by an immigration consultant or a lawyer.
One is visitor visas. The only consultants who can be regulated in these categories are consultants who hold a Canadian immigration consultant's licence.
Second is the student visa. Due to the difficulties in obtaining an immigration consultant's licence and long delays in immigration processing, many consultants operating outside of Canada are now involved in an immigration practice for foreign student recruitment by becoming an agent of a Canadian education institute. This class of consultant is specifically exempted from IRPA and from being regulated by CSIC or any such licensing body. The Canadian education institutes should be asked to hire the services of only licensed consultants.
Third are work permits and job offers for permanent immigrations and PNP skilled workers. This is the area that needs to be regulated very closely. Due to long delays in the immigration process, job offers for temporary workers and permanent immigration applications are being arranged by immigration consultants and lawyers to expedite the process. Immigrating to a new country with a job offer provides a sense of security to the applicants and it also helps to expedite the immigration process. As a result of this, the largest number of frauds committed by lawyers and consultants within the immigration industry occurs in this category, where the consultants can arrange to obtain job offers from Canadian employers and charge high fees to prospective immigrants.
Also, the latest policy by Citizenship and Immigration Canada to fast-track permanent immigration processing of applicants with a related job offer will add fuel to the fire. The applicants are ready to pay any amount of money to consultants or a lawyer who can arrange an HRSDC-approved job offer from a Canadian employer.
Similarly, except for in the province of Quebec, all provincial nominee programs have a prerequisite of a related job offer, and in those cases also, these problems exist.
A fourth category includes refugees, detentions, and IRB tribunal cases. This is another area of immigration practice where many frauds are being committed by consultants and lawyers. The foreign person claiming refugee status is most vulnerable in this category for a simple reason: that economic, political, or social conditions in the applicant's home country are not favourable. The applicant may have taken help from some agent or individual to reach Canada, may have little or no money, and may have minimum qualifications or understanding of the English and French languages. These are the people who have little hope, and in such situations, anyone who gives them any kind of hope is a godsend. Hence, they become easy targets for greedy consultants and lawyers.
Most immigration frauds are committed within Canada, and if the right action is taken to find this fraud, a major problem in the immigration industry can be solved, at least within Canada.
The last point is on the skilled workers and the business class. These applicants live outside Canada and they may be represented by consultants or lawyers from Canada as well as consultants originating outside Canada. However, a very small problem exists in this class, and no special measures are warranted, in my opinion. However, it is important that the consultants in and outside of Canada be regulated by means of a fair, transparent, and reasonable licensing system operated by the federal government.
Thank you very much.
Immigration consulting is my passion. Since I come from a legal background—I can't get a licence as a lawyer, which is another reality—this is the closest I can be to the legal profession.
On March 7, the immigration department in New Zealand introduced a licensing system for consultants. It's a federally regulated body; it's not given to the consultants. For example, if you are a farmer and you have 1,000 cows and you want to take care of them, you'll put them in one place and include them all, rather than exclude some.
The present system has been established with licensing systems for every profession in Canada. You're trying to exclude people because they don't have this or that; they don't have the language. You're not going to regulate people like that. You cannot, because if people are going all over the place and this is their livelihood, they're going to do it.
I'll put it in very loose terms, from my 15 years of experience in this field. The immigration profession from the outside, in other countries, is seen to be like the drug business. Because human smuggling in other countries is so rampant and so much money is involved in this, people wish to get into this business legally or illegally. Very few want to have legitimate businesses, but there are also people who want to have illegitimate businesses.
For example--and obviously I can't give you proof for this one--I started my practice way back in 1993 in India, in a small office, working with the law firm Brownstein and Brownstein. In the very first month after I put an advertisement in the newspaper, a gentleman came to me with a bag full of money. He said, “Mr. Ajmera, I work as a human smuggler. I saw your advertisement that you can send people to Canada. If you help me and my people, I will give you $15,000 per person.” I said, “Look, I'm a lawyer. My father was a lawyer, and my grandfather was a lawyer under British rule. That's the last thing I would like to do.”
As of today--this was overheard, and I don't have proof--the going rate to smuggle people from India to Canada or America is $80,000 Canadian.