JUST Committee Meeting

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 24

Thursday, October 4, 2001

The Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights met at 9:03 a.m. this day, in Room 209, West Block, the Chair, Andy Scott, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Carole-Marie Allard, Michel Bellehumeur, Bill Blaikie, Chuck Cadman, Paul DeVillers, Ivan Grose, Peter MacKay, John Maloney, John McKay, Lynn Myers, Stephen Owen, Denis Paradis, Andy Scott, Kevin Sorenson.

Acting Member present: Brian Fitzpatrick fro Myron Thompson.

In attendance: From Committees and Legislative Services: Richard Dupuis, Legislative Clerk. From the Library of Parliament: David Goetz, researcher; Philip Rosen, senior analyst.

Witnesses: Round Table I: From the Canadian Association of Internet Providers: Jay Thomson, President, CAIP. From the Canadian Cable Television Association: Lori Assheton-Smith, General Counsel, V.P. New Media. From the Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime: Steve Sullivan, President and Executive director. From the Victims of Violence Centre for Missing Children: Gary Rosenfeldt, Executive Director. Round Table II: From the Department of Justice Canada: Howard H. Bebbington, Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section; Lisette Lafontaine, Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section; Mary McFadyen, Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section.

Pursuant to its Order of Reference of Wednesday, September 26, 2001, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-15A, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and to amend other Acts (See Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, October 2, 2001, Meeting No. 22).

The witnesses made opening statements and answered questions.

At 9:37 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 10:43 a.m., the sitting resumed in Room 371, West Block.

On a motion of John McKay, it was agreed by unanimous consent, -- That in Bill C-15A, clauses 11 and 24 shall be deleted and inserted into Bill C-15B on page 5 as new clause 8.1 and new clause 9.1 respectively, and

That the Committee shall treat these changes as amendments in its report to the House on the Bills.

At 12 noon, the sitting was suspended

At 12:10 p.m., the sitting was resumed.

The Committee proceeded to Clause-by-Clause consideration of the Bill.

Appearing: Stephen Owen, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75 (1), consideration of Clause 1 is postponed.

Clause 2 carried by a show of hands.

Clause 3 carried by a show of hands.

Clause 4 carried by a show of hands.

On Clause 5,

Peter MacKay moved, -- That Bill C-15A, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 33 to 35 on page 2 with the following:

"(3) Every person who knowingly transmits, knowingly makes available, knowingly distributes, knowingly sells, knowingly imports, knowingly exports or knowingly possesses for the purpose of transmission, "

The question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Peter MacKay moved, -- That Bill C-15A be amended, in clause 5, by adding after line 37 on page 2 the following new clause:

"(2.1) Section 163.1 of the Act is amended by adding the following after subsection (3):

(3.1) For greater certainty, the custodian of a computer system who merely provides the means or facilities of telecommunication used by another person to commit one or more of the offences under subsection (3) does not itself commit such offences.

(3.2) In this section, "telecommunication" has the same meaning as in sections 326 and 327 of this Act."

The question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clause 5 carried by a show of hands.

Clause 6 carried by a show of hands.

Clause 7 carried by a show of hands.

On Clause 8,

Chuck Cadman moved, -- That Bill C-15A, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 29 on page 7 the following:

"(2.1) When an accused is convicted of more than one offence under subsection (1), the court that sentences the accused shall direct that any terms of imprisonment that are imposed by the court shall be served consecutively.

The question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clause 8 carried by a show of hands.

Clause 9 carried by a show of hands.

Clause 10 carried by a show of hands.

Clause 11 was negatived.

Clause 12 to 23 carried severally.

Clause 24 was negatived.

Clause 25 to 71 carried severally.

Clause 72 was debated and carried on the following recorded division:

On Clause 73,

Peter MacKay moved, -- That Bill C-15A, in Clause 73, be amended by replacing line 33 on page 37 with the following:

"this Part, an independent tribunal shall review"

Ruling by the Chair

This amendment is out of order as it infringes on the financial initiative of the Crown as fixed by the Royal Recommendation.

And the question being put on Clause 73, it carried on division.

Clause 74 to 95 carried severally.

The Title carried by a show of hands.

Clause 1 carried by a show of hands.

The Bill, as amended, carried on division.

ORDERED, -- That Bill C-15A, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and to amend other Acts, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House of Commons at Report Stage.

ORDERED, -- That the Chair report Bill C-15A with amendments to the House as the Fifth Report of the Committee.

At 1:20 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Catherine Barrette / Marie Danielle Vachon

Clerks of the Committee