FAIT Committee Meeting

STANDING COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE

COMITÉ PERMANENT DES AFFAIRES ÉTRANGÈRES ET DU COMMERCE INTERNATIONAL

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Monday, November 1, 1999

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[English]

The Co-Chair (Mr. Bill Graham (Toronto Centre—Rosedale, Lib.): Members, I want to call the joint committee meeting of Defence and Foreign Affairs and International Trade to order.

As I explained before Lord Robertson arrived, we now have only about six minutes, but somebody from the whip's office will come and give us a one-minute notice.

Mr. Secretary General, I hope you won't mind if we interrupt you at that point. I don't think there will be time for questions, but I know that members would appreciate anything you might have to tell us in the very brief time we have together—your view on Canada's contribution to NATO and anything else you see about future developments.

With my co-chair's permission, we'll turn it straight over to you.

Right Hon. Lord Robertson (Secretary General, North Atlantic Treaty Organization): Thank you very much for your kind welcome. I thought I'd got past the days when I needed to appear before parliamentary committees, but now I've discovered there are fully 19 committees I'll have to appear before.

It's a great pleasure to be here in Ottawa and to be with the committee of the Canadian Parliament. Obviously I have to give you a few sound bites here....

The Co-Chair (Mr. Bill Graham): Sorry, but it's time for the cameramen to leave.

Thank you.

Lord Robertson: It's not really possible to give you much more than that, but the first thing to say and to underline is how grateful NATO is for the Canadian contribution to international peacekeeping and the roles that NATO is engaged in at the present moment.

Ambassador David Wright, who represents superbly well the interests of Canada and the North Atlantic Council, was with me in my first week in office, going to both Bosnia and Kosovo with the council. We had a very interesting visit, plagued by weather, but actually making it much more interesting, especially in Kosovo where the helicopters couldn't fly and we had to go from Skopje up to Pristina by bus. To see that very acute valley with the precipices and the narrow road up there was to illustrate graphically how difficult it would have been to have got into Kosovo in anything other than an unopposed way. But NATO troops are doing a superb job in Kosovo, with Canadians there at the forefront, as indeed S-4 troops are doing in Bosnia, where again Canadian troops, along with the Dutch, the Czechs, and the British, are in Multinational Division South West.

So there's a good contribution being made yet again by a country that has contributed so often in the past to helping out its allies, its partners, and its friends.

As somebody who is international now in his job but who's British by origin, it's a great pleasure to wear the poppy today and to remember so many of the Canadians who travelled to distant places and lost their lives as part and parcel of that allied effort that has always projected the Canadian interest in the international sphere.

There are a lot of problems ahead of us. We have to develop after Kosovo some of the capabilities that were clearly not available to NATO in that campaign and to learn the lessons of Kosovo, and I believe that means investing more in defence. It also means that countries who are under the average for expenditure in defence I think should be spending a little bit more, and spending it more wisely on the sorts of capabilities we will need for the threats of tomorrow and not for the enemies of yesterday—deploying troops to where we need to deploy them, and deploying them rapidly, safely, and very quickly indeed.

East Timor was a classic illustration where so many countries are out with the NATO area and will remain out with the NATO area, as I emphasized. But it showed in the wake of Kosovo how difficult it was to get our troops to where we wanted them to be. So we have to address that. The Europeans will have to do much more inside NATO to balance what is happening in the United States. We have to be much more of a force for good in the areas where we are involved at the present moment.

Canada is a key ally, a good ally, a reliable ally. The Canadian people believe in making a difference, and that is what their troops are doing in the world today in peacekeeping ways. I'd just like to take the opportunity here in the Parliament of Canada to express how grateful we in NATO are for what you do.

The Co-Chair (Mr. Bill Graham): Since we haven't been given the high sign, maybe we do have some time for questions. If you can keep your questions to about two minutes, we'll get some other people....

Mr. Hanger.

Mr. Art Hanger (Calgary Northeast, Ref.): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, sir, for your presentation. It's good to have you here. Welcome to Canada.

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I have a couple of questions, but I'll try to put them into one question. First of all, how long do you envision NATO forces remaining committed in Kosovo? Could we be there for decades? Another related question is since NATO is committed officially to a multi-ethnic Bosnia, isn't the reality that Bosnia has been divided and will remain divided on ethnic-religious grounds? Looking at it from the European standpoint, from some comments I've heard, will Europe actually tolerate an Islamic state in their midst?

Lord Robertson: The answer to the first question is as long as it is necessary, but if you consider that we had 60,000 troops in Bosnia when IFOR went in there...we are planning probably to go down to some 20,000 from next year. You begin to see that the commitment you have need not necessarily be at the same level forever.

There is a a lot of progress being made inside Bosnia today, and in relation to what you said about the multi-ethnic nature of the society, there were 15,000 refugee returns across the inter-entity boundaries in the last year. We're making an impression on refugee returns. The Croat, the Bosnian, and the Serbian tri-presidency met the ambassadors. They appear now to be travelling and doing things together.

I think the most optimistic element of what's happening in Bosnia today is that external investment is now moving into that country, and it is becoming hopefully much less dependent on international aid. So a reduction in combat troops, an increase in the civil side of the creation of the society, plus much more of an ownership of the future of the country by all of the entities working together gives me cause for some optimism, as long as the international community remains plugged in and committed.

The Co-Chair (Mr. Bill Graham): Colleagues, I'm told we have one minute left, so I'm going to ask Lord Robertson to excuse us. We all have to get down to the House for votes. I think you understand what that's about, sir.

Thank you very much. I'm very sorry we couldn't spend more time together.

Lord Robertson: Thank you very much. I've never heard a division bell like that.

The Co-Chair (Mr. Bill Graham): I have a report here I'll give you.

We're adjourned.