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ETHI Committee Meeting

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Minutes of Proceedings

43rd Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 8
Thursday, July 23, 2020, 4:07 p.m. to 6:42 p.m.
Televised
Presiding
Rachael Harder, Chair (Conservative)

Library of Parliament
• Alexandra Savoie, Analyst
The committee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to committee business.

By unanimous consent, the motion moved by Damian Kurek on Wednesday, July 22, 2020, was withdrawn.

At 4:10 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:11 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Brenda Shanahan gave notice of the following motion:

That, in relation to the motion passed on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 to ensure the privacy and security of this personal information of Canadians, the committee adopt the following procedures for the handling of these documents:

• That the documents not be emailed to Members, staff or anyone else;

• that for the consideration of the documents during in-camera meetings, numbered, paper copies be provided to committee members by the Clerk at the start of any meeting at which they will be considered, and that they be returned to the clerk at the end of the meeting;

• that no staff and no mobile or electronic devices be allowed for the duration of the in camera meeting;

• that the documents be held in the Clerk’s office, and that outside of in-camera committee meetings, Members may only view the documents in the Clerk’s office and that no mobile or electronic devices may be in the room when the documents are being reviewed.

Motion

Rhéal Éloi Fortin moved, — In view of the admissions of the Minister of Finance to having obtained remuneration from "WE Charity" and to having placed himself in a conflict of interest, the committee requests his immediate resignation.

After debate, the question was put on the motion and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Michael Barrett, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Damien Kurek, Dane Lloyd — 4;

NAYS: Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Matthew Green, Marie-France Lalonde, Francis Scarpaleggia, Brenda Shanahan — 6.

Motion

Matthew Green moved, — That, whereas there is a culture of Ethical Permissiveness around the Prime Minister; and whereas the Prime Minister has twice been found to be in contravention of the Conflict of Interest Act and is under investigation for a third potential breach; and whereas the Prime Minister's Office thus appears to lack the capability or inclination to adequately advise the Prime Minister with respect to the avoidance of conflicts of interest or the appearance of conflicts of interest in compliance with Canadian law, the Committee move that pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h), the Committee undertake a study of the policies, procedures, and practices surrounding ethical conduct and avoidance of conflicts of interest within the Prime Minister's Office, including testimony from the Clerk of the Privy Council, Ian Shugart and Katie Telford, Chief of Staff the Prime Minister's Office; and that the Committee, upon completion of its study, issue a report with recommendations to better permit the Prime Minister's Office to conduct the business of government with public confidence in its integrity.

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Michael Barrett moved, — That the motion be amended following the words, ”practices surrounding ethical conduct and avoidance of conflicts of interest within the Prime Minister's office”, by deleting the words “including testimony from” and adding “that the witnesses must include but are not limited to the following”.

Debate arose thereon.

At 4:35 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:39 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 4:42 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:45 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Subamendment

Brenda Shanahan moved, — That the amendment be amended following the words "that the witnesses" by adding the words "be determined by the Committee" and deleting the words "must include, but are not limited to the following: the Clerk of the Privy Council, Ian Shugart, and Katie Telford, Chief of Staff the Prime Minister’s Office;".

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment and the result of the vote was announced:

YEAS: William Amos, Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Francis Scarpaleggia, Brenda Shanahan — 5;

NAYS: Michael Barrett, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Matthew Green, Damien Kurek, Dane Lloyd — 5.

Whereupon, the Chair voted in the negative.

Accordingly, the subamendment was negatived.

The question was put on the amendment and the result of the vote was announced:

YEAS: Michael Barrett, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Matthew Green, Damien Kurek, Dane Lloyd — 5;

NAYS: William Amos, Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Francis Scarpaleggia, Brenda Shanahan — 5.

Whereupon, the Chair voted in the affirmative.

Accordingly, the amendment was agreed to.

Amendment

Mark Gerretsen moved, — That the motion be amended by removing the words "whereas there is a culture of Ethical Permissiveness around the Prime Minister; and whereas the Prime Minister has twice been found to be in contravention of the Conflict of Interest Act and is under investigation for a third potential breach; and whereas the Prime Minister's Office thus appears to lack the capability or inclination to adequately advise the Prime Minister with respect to the avoidance of conflicts of interest or the appearance of conflicts of interest in compliance with Canadian law".

After debate, the question was put on the amendment and the result of the vote was announced:

YEAS: William Amos, Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Francis Scarpaleggia, Brenda Shanahan — 5;

NAYS: Michael Barrett, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Matthew Green, Damien Kurek, Dane Lloyd — 5.

Whereupon, the Chair voted in the negative.

Accordingly, the amendment was negatived.

The question was put on the motion and the result of the vote was announced:

YEAS: Michael Barrett, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Matthew Green, Damien Kurek, Dane Lloyd — 5;

NAYS: William Amos, Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Francis Scarpaleggia, Brenda Shanahan — 5.

Whereupon, the Chair voted in the affirmative.

Accordingly, the motion was agreed to.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:

That, whereas there is a culture of Ethical Permissiveness around the Prime Minister; and whereas the Prime Minister has twice been found to be in contravention of the Conflict of Interest Act and is under investigation for a third potential breach; and whereas the Prime Minister's Office thus appears to lack the capability or inclination to adequately advise the Prime Minister with respect to the avoidance of conflicts of interest or the appearance of conflicts of interest in compliance with Canadian law, the Committee move that pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h), the Committee undertake a study of the policies, procedures, and practices surrounding ethical conduct and avoidance of conflicts of interest within the Prime Minister's Office; that the witnesses must include but are not limited to the following: the Clerk of the Privy Council, Ian Shugart and Katie Telford, Chief of Staff of the Prime Minister's Office; and that the Committee, upon completion of its study, issue a report with recommendations to better permit the Prime Minister's Office to conduct the business of government with public confidence in its integrity.

Motion

Brenda Shanahan moved, — That, in relation to the motion passed on Wednesday, July 22, 2020, to ensure the privacy and security of this personal information of Canadians, the committee adopt the following procedures for the handling of these documents:

• That the documents not be emailed to Members, staff or anyone else;

• that for the consideration of the documents during in-camera meetings, numbered, paper copies be provided to committee members by the Clerk at the start of any meeting at which they will be considered, and that they be returned to the clerk at the end of the meeting;

• that no staff and no mobile or electronic devices be allowed for the duration of the in camera meeting;

• that the documents be held in the Clerk’s office, and that outside of in-camera committee meetings, Members may only view the documents in the Clerk’s office and that no mobile or electronic devices may be in the room when the documents are being reviewed.

Debate arose thereon.

Motion

Dane Lloyd moved, — That the debate be now adjourned.

At 5:45 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 5:55 p.m., the sitting resumed.

The question was put on the motion and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Michael Barrett, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Damien Kurek, Dane Lloyd — 4;

NAYS: William Amos, Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Matthew Green, Francis Scarpaleggia, Brenda Shanahan — 6.

At 6:00 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 6:10 p.m., the sitting resumed.

A point of order was raised as to the procedural acceptability of the proposed motion.

At 6:12 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 6:18 p.m., the sitting resumed.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair ruled the proposed motion of Brenda Shanahan admissible as it is sufficiently different from the motion moved on Wednesday, July 22, 2020.

After debate, the question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Pam Damoff, Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Matthew Green, Francis Scarpaleggia, Brenda Shanahan — 6;

NAYS: Michael Barrett, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Damien Kurek, Dane Lloyd — 4.

Motion

Damien C. Kurek moved, — That pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vi) and to the committee's current study to review the safeguards which are in place to avoid and prevent conflicts of interest in federal government procurement contracting, grant contribution and other expenditures, the Chair be instructed to write a letter to each member of cabinet requiring they disclose whether they had knowledge of the personal relationships between those listed and WE, ME to WE Corporation, WE Charity, WE Education for Children Limited, WE Villages, WE Schools, the ME to WE Foundation, the WE Charity Foundation, ME to WE Asset Holdings Inc., ME to WE Property Management Inc., ME to WE Style Inc., or any other entity created by Mark Kielburger, Craig Kielburger or both of them prior to the cabinet's decision to award the administration of the Canada student services grant to the WE Charity Foundation:

a) Justin Trudeau and his family;

b) Bill Morneau and his family;

c) Katie Telford or Seamus O'Regan.

Additionally, the letter should require that all members of cabinet disclose whether they, their families or their relatives have connections to WE, ME to WE Corporation, WE Charity, WE Education for Children Limited, WE Villages, WE Schools, the ME to WE Foundation, the WE Charity Foundation, ME to WE Asset Holdings Inc., ME to WE Property Management Inc., ME to WE Style Inc., or any other entity created by Mark Kielburger, Craig Kielburger or both of them;

That a response be ordered within a week of the receipt of this letter but no later than two weeks after the adoption of this motion.

Debate arose thereon.

Motion

Mark Gerretsen moved, — that the committee now be adjourned.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: William Amos, Michael Barrett, Greg Fergus, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Mark Gerretsen, Matthew Green, Damien Kurek, Dane Lloyd, Francis Scarpaleggia, Brenda Shanahan — 10;

NAYS: — 0.

At 6:40 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Miriam Burke
Clerk of the Committee