Thank you, colleagues. It's a pleasure to be before you to discuss, as noted by the chair, the main estimates for the Department of Justice.
This is my 56th appearance before a standing committee as a government minister. Joining me today are the deputy minister of justice and deputy attorney general, William Pentney; the associate deputy minister, Pierre Legault; and senior assistant deputy minister of policy, Donald Piragoff; all of whom have extensive experience before committees as well and certainly within this department.
Mr. Chair and colleagues, in my role as Minister of Justice and Attorney General, I'm responsible for ensuring that our justice system remains fair, relevant, and accessible to Canadians. It also involves, of course, overseeing a significant budget, with an eye to fiscal prudence and respect for taxpayers.
[Translation]
The Government of Canada introduced measures in connection with several criminal justice priorities. Our objective is to to make our streets and communities safer, and ensure that our justice system continues to bolster the safety of Canadians through our criminal justice laws, policies and programs.
[English]
Among them, Mr. Chair, we are pleased to announce that the has come into force. This law takes effect very soon and deals specifically with law enforcement online. This is a bill with which you and members of this committee are very familiar. I thank you for your work in this regard.
We've seen increased activity with regard to the subject of cyberbullying, which has had a devastating impact on many young people in Canada, affecting their reputations, their self-esteem, and their mental health. Also, it has directly contributed to the unfortunate decision that a number of young people have taken to end their own lives, young people like Rehtaeh Parsons, Amanda Todd, Todd Loik, and countless others, which is why the government acted to protect young people from malicious online behaviour, such as posting intimate images on the Internet, and the insidious and relentless harassment that often follows.
This is coupled with outreach efforts that are ongoing, and with education and the involvement of many people and organizations—such as the Canadian Centre for Child Protection in Winnipeg—which have directly contributed to the assistance of young people who are feeling cornered, hopeless, and in some cases desperate. Things such as GetHelpNow.ca and Cybertip.ca are areas in which young people are able to access information about how to remove offending material.
The Government of Canada also understands that Canadians expect their justice system to keep them safe, and we are committed to protecting Canadians from individuals who may pose a high risk to public safety. It's an obligation and a responsibility that we take very seriously.
Obviously, the evolving threat of terrorism is one those most troubling threats. In response to this risk, we introduced a bill earlier this year, which again is a bill you're familiar with, Bill , to strengthen our existing anti-terrorism laws to ensure that they continue to respond appropriately to all forms of terrorism.
As you know, the bill is currently before the Senate. Among other things, such as enabling police to be more proactive in identifying radicalization and acting accordingly, this bill will fill a current gap in the Criminal Code by creating a new Criminal Code offence criminalizing the advocacy and promotion of terrorism, including those that would encourage attacks on Canadians.
Protecting victims of crime is another area in which we have been very active, as has this committee. We are moving to provide a more effective voice in our justice system as a key priority for our government. Victims of crime deserve to be treated with courtesy, compassion, and respect.
Mr. Chair, to that end, we introduced the . It received royal assent last month. This legislation enables the rights of victims of crime at a federal level and establishes statutory rights to information, protection, participation, and in some cases restitution. It also ensures that there is a complaint process to deal with breaches of those rights.
Again, I could mention others that this committee has been seized with, including , tougher penalties for child predators, and several other bills, for which I again express my appreciation for the diligence of this committee.
Mr. Chair, the Department of Justice is estimating net budgetary expenditures of $673.9 million in the year 2015-16, which is a net spending increase of $43.3 million from the 2014-15 main estimates. The net increase in spending illustrates the Government of Canada's commitment to maintaining, as mentioned, the integrity and the importance of our justice system in terms of accessibility to it through programs and personnel.
Mr. Chair, one especially important area of increased spending, totalling $1.9 million, represents the funding in support of non-legislative measures to address prostitution. In 2014, the came into force. This uniquely Canadian model was informed by the results of government consultations, public consultations, on the subject of prostitution in the aftermath of the Supreme Court's decision in Bedford.
That consultation received more than 31,000 responses from Canadians, in addition to the in-person round tables. This was the largest consultation, I note, ever undertaken by the Department of Justice to date, and it recognized in the legislation the significant harms associated with prostitution. In a combination of Department of Justice money and Public Safety money, $20 million is being made available through a fund over five years for programs aimed specifically at helping those who sell sexual services to exit prostitution.
Mr. Chair, this is a compassionate and common-sense program that we are delivering, and we believe it will make a positive difference. The funding will provide services such as trauma therapy, addiction recovery, employment training, and financial literacy. It could also be used to support transitional housing, emergency safe houses, child care, and drop-in centres. I can tell you that there has been tremendous uptake on this program funding. In addition, there will be funding made available to help law enforcement agencies connect with those who want to leave prostitution and help them find emergency or long-term services, such as those I just mentioned.
The new resources demonstrate the government's commitment to meaningfully support those exploited through prostitution. We are ensuring that the laws address as well the serious harms associated with prostitution and deliver the protection that vulnerable Canadians and communities have come to expect and deserve from this government.
Mr. Chair, in February of 2015, the government announced that it had extended its support for the aboriginal justice strategy to include an additional $11.1 million for fiscal year 2016-17. The aboriginal justice strategy supports community-based justice programs across the country that have delivered results in reducing crime and victimization in aboriginal communities. There are approximately 275 aboriginal justice programs. There is outreach to over 800 aboriginal communities now, touching every province and territory, both on and off reserve, and in rural, urban, and northern communities.
Lowering recidivism and reducing the overrepresentation of aboriginal Canadians in our justice system is at the root. The programs are cost-effective and produce short- and long-term savings for Canadians by freeing up police, court, and correctional resources to address more serious crime. This is in addition to other programs such as the $25 million that is directly focused on the subject of murdered and missing aboriginal women.
Although there was an effort with respect to the main estimates—an increase of $43.3 million—there have also been decisions taken around the providing of legal services as part of our commitment to better and more effectively manage resources. Within the department, there was a review of the legal services provided to all government departments. As you know, we do a great deal of work on behalf of other departments and other agencies in government. As a result, we've identified immediate measures to reduce legal services demand and costs. There is another wave that is aimed specifically at simplifying and increasing access to legal services. It will be implemented within the coming fiscal year.
Over the next year, the department will also continue to work to meet the needs of the Government of Canada's policy objectives. They include enhancing legislation to hold offenders accountable; supporting initiatives to address such issues as security and terrorism, as I referenced earlier; working with other departments to address crime prevention; rehabilitation, treatment, and enforcement activities that relate to illicit drugs; and continuing our aboriginal justice issues. I would also add to that list the work that's done with young offenders. In particular, there are various branches of this youth justice initiative that deal with guns and gangs.
These initiatives will help the Department of Justice continue to build a system that improves access and meets the diverse needs of Canadians.
[Translation]
Mr. Chair, the Government of Canada is determined to protect the integrity of our justice system. We have reaffirmed that commitment through the level of funding allocated to the Justice portfolio.
The items presented by the Department of Justice for inclusion in the 2015-2016 main estimates will help to guarantee that we continue to have a fair society that respects our legislation and has an accessible, effective and equitable justice system.
[English]
Finally, the funding that the justice portfolio has received delivers results. I'm proud to say that, aided by very able officials, we'll continue to see that these funds are spent wisely while ensuring that Canadians have the fair, relevant, and accessible justice system that they expect.
I want to again thank you, Mr. Chair and members of this committee, for your diligence and determination in examining in many cases very complex bills and for the contribution you are making in that regard.
I look forward to taking your questions over this period. Similarly, I know that officials here, along with representatives from the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, from the Administrative Tribunals Support Service, and other officials will be attending, I believe, at the next meeting, on May 13, to answer any questions in those particular areas.
Thank you, Chair.
Minister, thank you for having come to testify before the committee in the past. You have come here quite regularly, since the so-called “law and order bills” seem very popular with your government. This is probably your last appearance before the committee, and so I am going to try to take advantage of the five or six minutes I have to go back to certain points.
You seem very proud of the amounts that have been allocated to you. From what I see the figures are not even at the level of the real expenditures in 2013-2014. Since everything was delayed by the government, this has allowed us to examine both the economic action plan and the 2015 main estimates. In 584 pages, I saw two minuscule allusions to justice. Sometimes I get the impression that your government is
[English]
tough on crime on paper, but not so much on resources.
[Translation]
We all remember that
[English]
justice delayed is justice denied.
[Translation]
Those who work in the justice system at all levels, be it the judges, crown attorneys or defence attorneys, all say that their work has become extremely complex because of the multitude of new laws and amendments to the Criminal Code, as well as insufficient resources. I am sure you have heard the same comments. There are still a large number of judges missing at several levels, for instance in Ontario, Quebec and elsewhere. There are still enormous problems in connection with legal aid. You tell us that your role is the following:
[English]
to ensure that the justice system is “fair, relevant, and accessible”.
[Translation]
And yet, one morning in January 2015, I read that 50 DUI cases had been thrown out by the court because the trials had not taken place within a reasonable time frame. There is a problem somewhere. You have to stop sticking your head in the sand and simply going before committees trying to give the impression that all issues have been solved everywhere. Regarding trials, the delays are increasingly unreasonable and the costs are growing.
We all know that your department spent a fortune challenging all sorts of things and going right up to the Supreme Court to ensure that justice-related laws were constitutional, only to be told ultimately that they were not. There are some major issues and we don't hear you piping up very loudly about them. I would like to know what you have to say about that.
I also have a specific question for you. Your expenditure budget mentions a sum of $1.9 million in connection with prostitution. I am curious to know whether you have had any reports since that bill was passed and implemented and if there have been any changes whatsoever. I am very surprised to see that no additional sums have been allocated to the ombudsman for victims, whereas this was an extremely important part of your Conservative law and order platform. This is what leads me to say that you are
[English]
tough on paper, but not so much on resources.
[Translation]
Services have to be provided, but there will be no additional funds.
Forgive me, but this is probably our last opportunity to see you in committee. In light of the fact that the federal government budget is over $300 billion, I think that what is allocated to justice should be at the very heart of the lives of Canadians, but this does not measure up.
:
Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Dechert.
You've been intimately involved in our efforts to bring this legislation forward, and the consultations and the outreach, which, in addition to the bill itself, I would describe as of equal importance. The legislation, as you know, specifically hones in on this subject of the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. That is part of the concern.
Obviously a young person very often feels completely devastated by these images that are sometimes taken in circumstances that are regrettable, that may involve alcohol abuse, sexual abuse, and may involve circumstances that are out of context; yet here is that image haunting that young person, potentially for the rest of their life. We've seen the devastating impact that can have.
Passing the legislation was important. It sends a message, as criminal justice bills tend to do, of deterrence and denunciation. It's also important that young people are aware of those consequences.
But to come back to your question, we need to reach those young people, and the education system, the schools, have been more amenable to having those discussions. In fact, we've been contacted and invited to come and have these discussions at schools. We will very often have members of the local police department present, people like Lianna McDonald, who has headed up an incredible effort, not only nationally but internationally, to make young people aware of the assistance available to them. We've advertised online. You may have seen some of these very pointed, and I think quite impactful messages that are available on television and at movie theatres, but most importantly, in that realm of online communication.
You asked for some of my reflections on this. Every time I've been to a school, and I've been to a number of them now, I learn something new. Young people are very dialled in to what's happening online. They're talking more openly and frankly about how this is happening. They're aware that this is going on around them to other students, and we're encouraging them to take a good Samaritan approach and stop it, confront it, when it's happening. We are also encouraging them to reach out to the person who is often the victim and report it, and to know where to get help, that there are programs and personnel who are prepared to work with them to in some cases remove the offending material.
It's complex to say the least. Much of this is happening from outside of our own country. In some cases our laws do not allow us to go into the IP service provider's jurisdiction to try to remove that material. But there's work being done in that regard. I was here previously talking about our alliances with other countries where there is a similar phenomenon. I'm quite heartened by the very focused attempt that many countries, including our own, have taken to try to save young people, and anyone for that matter. It doesn't apply only to youth, but that's where this impact is perhaps being felt most acutely.
:
Once again I thank you, Mr. Dechert. This is an issue that I think is personal for most, and you, like many members of this committee, have had an opportunity to hear from victims and their families.
This legislation is groundbreaking in that it entrenches in federal law for the first time, as you know well, those rights to which victims will now be able to really point, in the way that those who are accused of serious crime now have legislation they can depend on. Now these are encapsulated in the victims bill.
Madam Boivin mentioned the victims ombudsman's office. That was also the creation of our government. We have been funding that office's ability to assist and, looking towards the future, to help see that these rights will be respected and given due course and consideration.
We have also put in place funding that is attached to victims, that is attached to the programs that victims can avail themselves of, and I'll refer to those specifically. I think the transformation, and I don't think that's too grandiose a word, will be felt by victims in the common best practices that will emerge when that victims bill is fully adopted and embraced, as I expect it will be. Victims will have a much greater sense of import and involvement in their own case. They will have a greater sense of respect from all of the actors within our criminal justice system. The victims fund itself does put in place additional resources. It will allow us to give meaning to those victims' rights. It will be part of the initial commitment that we made when we came to government in 2006. This is a victims fund that is very much aimed at helping with counselling, with compassionate support that is often required by victims in the aftermath in particular of violent crime. It is there for youth, for their families. It also involves, of course, working with the provinces on a strategy to see that victims are given the type of support, not just financial support but real support, that helps them move past the crime and move on with their lives.
The lingering effects of crime we know are very real. We know that it has an enormous impact in terms of lost productivity and wages. Overall programs are aimed at diminishing that, but it's estimated that the overall impact in our country amounts to about a hundred billion dollars, borne substantially, 85% or 90%, by victims themselves.
These programs are beginning to have an effect. They won't turn around overnight, but victims will feel far more valued and legitimized within the justice system.
One of the more shocking revelations I heard in the consultations was by victims who said, “I wouldn't go through it again. I wouldn't report it. I felt revictimized.” We're turning that tide.
:
The strategy, in my view, is having the desired effect. It is ongoing. There is a very challenging and troubling scenario that we're all aware of, given the disproportionate number of aboriginal people, young aboriginal people in particular, who find their way into the system and are incarcerated. The numbers are staggering.
There are programs and outreach and the ability to provide alternative programming. This programming is arrived at, in many cases, through consultation with first nations, because the sheer size of the country and the diversity among different bands in different parts of the country necessitates that we not take the one-size-fits-all approach. Some communities are obviously focused more on addressing issues of addiction, for example, or issues that relate to gang violence or issues of domestic violence.
The programs, as I mentioned, are very diverse and are tailored in many cases to those communities. We think they are tailored in a way that involves first nations input, first and foremost, but that also allows us to respond in a pre-emptive and preventative way as opposed to simply reacting. These programs are borne out through great efforts on behalf of people working not only in our department but also at Indian and Northern Affairs, those who are working to help with employment issues, for example.
I take an example from a community in my own constituency, the Pictou first nations. A lot of the effort now is aimed at engaging young people coming out of high school to get them into the workforce and to do so in a way that respects their heritage and culture but allows them to be gainfully employed and to pursue areas of employment that are of interest to them, including their own businesses.
It's an approach that I think is having a very important effect on reducing that overrepresentation, lowering recidivism rates, and embracing community responses to criminality. The aboriginal justice strategy was renewed for that very reason. It was renewed in a way that is designed to get to young people before they find themselves involved in the criminal justice system. You, as a police officer, know about that early engagement and about building trust. Aboriginal policing is an important part of that strategy, and having members of the RCMP and local police forces there also creates employment opportunities, thereby adding legitimacy.
In my view, it also creates a greater sense of trust when the response to justice issues is handled primarily by first nations people themselves, so their delivery of these programs that we're funding is also, I think, one of the keys to success. I think the programs themselves have also proven to be cost effective and they produce the types of results that have a lasting impact on communities and on everyone, frankly.
:
I think that is an important consideration, and I thank you, Mr. Menegakis, for stating the obvious.
Quite frankly I think it's expected that all departments deliver the services, the programs, the results that are expected, and Justice is no exception. They do so with a mind to ensuring responsibility, accountability, of that program spending. Part of that is transparency, as we're exhibiting here. Part of it is also doing examinations from time to time of what actual efficiencies can be delivered when it comes to those programs.
It's no small consideration to keep in mind the taxpayers' money that is being used to deliver these programs and the results we are talking about here. I think there is an expectation on the part of Canadians that we balance the budget, that we get back to a place that is important for Canadians. There is an expectation that we'll be able to achieve savings through innovation where possible, and it was a very strong commitment that we made.
Coming out of a recession, it's clear that we are one of the few countries, frankly, on the planet that have been able to do this and lower taxes and keep the budget balanced, in spite of some of the unexpected things that have happened in a very turbulent time around falling oil prices.
Not to get too far afield but to answer your question, we're very mindful of that fact at the Department of Justice. As all ministers will tell you, we've been asked to be very prudent in our requests this year—as in previous years—when we go to the Department of Finance and say that these are the programs we're delivering.
We've set certain priorities where we've increased spending. Child advocacy centres are one of them. Ensuring that we have safety and security around justice facilities is another important area where we sought increases. To come back to a question from Madame Boivin with respect to legal aid, this is an ongoing concern. Where in other areas of justice we have had to reduce, we have managed to keep this funding stable. We've kept the funding stable, which does result in a net increase when calculated over time.
Of course, when we transfer significant dollars to provinces for the delivery of many of the justice programs and services, I would describe that as a direct contribution that the federal government is making to the delivery and accessibility of justice nationwide.
:
Thank you, Mr. Menegakis.
I would also be quick to point out that, through the good work of many of the police agencies, the investigators, those on the front line, we've actually seen, as a result of some of this legislation, that they have now been able to make some arrests of perpetrators, of those who prey on vulnerable people. Quite frankly, they were the target of these changes. Perpetrators, pimps, johns, those who are purchasing, that's where much of this focus is and should be.
We also announced, you're right, a complementary fund of $20 million over the next five years to help with the compassionate work of helping those who are vulnerable to leave, to exit, prostitution, which is an inherently dangerous way to make a living, if I can put it that way. We've directed these funds to deliver some of the front-line services that are happening now. Make no mistake about it, there is a lot of incredibly important work being done. This will buttress those efforts. It may allow for some new programs to emerge that will be available to those who wish to exit. With that overall approach of targeting programs to help those who are in danger and those who are most in need to leave, to find employment, to go through retraining, sometimes it's as simple as having a place to live, accessing child care, and being able to find a safe place to regroup and emerge with a better way of life.
That additional funding is part and parcel of the bill itself. To return to some of the other questions, it comes as a result of a number of overlapping areas on which we're trying to focus on the preventative side, whether it's addictions issues or whether it's people who were victimized themselves at a very young age, who are impoverished, who lack the opportunity and the ability, in some cases, to walk away from that life. Human trafficking is of course very much associated with this issue. We've had targeted efforts in that regard as well with certain legislation. People like have been leaders in the country. The online aspect of exploitation very much impacts in prostitution, as does the advertising. It does require that very holistic, far-reaching approach. The programming for the exit strategy is a piece of that.
As I mentioned, we're starting to roll out now those specific funds, because they've been, and I say this with some regret, oversubscribed. I wish I could report to you that there wasn't the need. There is massive need in this regard. We'll have to look in the future at that targeted amount and also be able to report to your earlier question with regard to how efficacious we've been in delivering and getting results.
Further to the amendment.... By the way I should have mentioned the amendment is in order. I should have said that right up front.
Any further questions or comments on the amendment?
(Amendment agreed to)
(Clause 1 as amended agreed to)
The Chair: Shall the bill carry as amended?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the title carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the chair report the bill, as amended, to the House?
Some hon members: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the committee order a reprint of the bill, as amended, for the use of the House at report stage?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chair: We're done now with Bill . I will report that back to the House tomorrow.
We do now have visitors coming to see us at five o'clock for those who can hang around. They are from the delegation from the Parliament of Ukraine. You have a notice on who's coming. They are a fairly senior legal group that wants to come to see us. If you could hang around, that would be great. If you can't, I fully understand.
We will suspend until five o'clock.
(Interpretation):
First of all, let me express my sincere gratitude to you for taking the time to meet with us and that we have this wonderful opportunity to actually talk to each other, and to be here within the framework of the Canada-funded project regarding judicial education for economic growth in Ukraine.
As you may know, Ukraine is in the process of developing all kinds of reforms, some of them are very substantial, one of them being constitutional reform. Changes to the Ukrainian constitution are being developed as we speak. They will deal with the devolution of powers, the decentralization of powers, from the central government to regional and local governments, oblast level and city level. A significant part of this reform includes the reform of the judiciary, the courts.
Many people in Ukraine express dissatisfaction with how the judicial and court systems work. Therefore, these are very important changes that are being developed and contemplated right now. One of the most important parts is to strengthen the independence of the judiciary.
We want to improve the funding arrangements for the system as to bring back the trust of the people into the system.
The current parliament is very busy. We have already adopted a number of laws that deal with different aspects of the judicial system and a great number are still under development.
We also mentioned commercial courts. Again, there is a lively discussion in the society. Many views are being voiced and some of those views are that we don't.... In Ukraine we have separate administrative courts and separate commercial courts. Some people have said that we should do away with this specialization, but in recent laws that dealt with the judicial system, they have remained.
We've been here for a few days now and I can see that our systems are very different. I like many things about the Canadian judicial system. I like the fact that whenever a case is initiated and filed, it stays in the same city and province all through the appeal process.
In Ukraine, in many cases when a case is first heard and there is an appeal, it moves to a different city. For example, it would have to go to a different oblast. Then, of course, the final appeal is at the supreme court of Ukraine, which is located in Kiev. There are many more movements for the parties involved. I wish we could streamline it somehow, as well.
There was a sort of philosophical question, whether we should do away with the specialized courts, like commercial and administrative courts. The prevailing thought is that the legislation is so complex that it's good to have specialized commercial and administrative courts.
There are many discussions that are still ongoing.