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SPAC Committee Meeting

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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 5

Monday, April 5, 2004

The Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts met in camera at 4:30 p.m. this day, in Room 112-N Centre Block, the Chair, John Williams, presiding.

Members of the Subcommittee present: Marlene Jennings, Judy Wasylycia-Leis and John Williams.

Acting Members present: Michel Guimond for Odina Desrochers, Dennis Mills for Hon. Walt Lastewka and Alan Tonks for Beth Phinney.

In attendance: Library of Parliament: Brian O'Neal, Analyst . House of Commons: Stephen Knowles, Committee Clerk ; Rob Walsh, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.

Other Participants present: KPMG: Mark Brenning, Forensic Auditor; Victor Duret, Partner.

The Subcommittee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to Committee business.

It was agreed — That pursuant to Committee agreement on scheduling witnesses in the following order, by category of importance, in relation to the study of Chapters 3, 4 and 5 of the November 2003 Report of the Auditor General regarding the Sponsorship Matter, the Standing Comittee on Public Accounts call and schedule the following persons to appear before the Committee in the following order; if desired witnesses cannot be scheduled in order of importance, a further category of expert witnesses be used to draw on to replace those witnesses:

HEADS OF CROWN CORPORATIONS INVOLVED:

Canada Post

Chairman

1995-1996 Peter Cameron

1996-1999 André Ouellet

2000-2005 Vivian Albo

President

1993-1998 Georges Clermont

1999-2006 André Ouellet

Chief Financial Officer

Via Rail

Chairman

1993-2001 Marc LeFrançois

2001-2004 Jean Pelletier

President and CEO

1993-1998 Terry Ivany

1998-2000 Roderick Morrison

2000-2004 Marc LeFrançois

Chief Financial Officer

Chief Strategy Officer

Ms. Christina Sirsly

Royal Canadian Mint

Chairman

1996-1999 Jose Blanco

1999-2005 Emmanuel Triassi

Master of the Mint

1996-2002 Daniele Wetherup

2002-2003 Emmanuel Triassi

2003-2008 David Dingwall

Chief Financial Officer

Business Development Bank

Chairman

1994-1997 Patrick Lavelle

1998-2000 Michel Vennat

2001-2007 Ced Ritchie

President

1993-1999 François Beaudoin

1999-2000 Bernd Schroder

2001-2004 Michel Vennat

Canada Lands

Chairman

1995 to 2001 Mr. Jon Grant

ADVERTISING AGENCIES:

Groupaction Marketing Inc.

President

Jean Brault

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Lafleur Communications

President

Jean Lafleur

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Groupe Everest (and its subsidiary, Media IDA Vision)

President

Claude Boulay

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Gosselin Communications Strategiques of Ottawa

President

Patrick Gosselin

Gilles-Andre Gosselin

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Communication Coffin

President

Paul Coffin

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Compass Communications

President

Tony Blom

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Palmer Jarvis

President

1993 - Present

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Vickers

President

1993 - Present

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Publicité Martin

President

1993 – Present

Chief Financial Officers

1993 – Present

Chief Government Relations Officials

1993 – Present

Dickson Lithographing

ADMINISTRATION:

Deputy Ministers, PWGSC:

Ron Quail, Deputy Minister, PWGSC (1993 – April 2001)

Janice Cochrane, Deputy Minister, PWGSC (April 2001 – June 2003); Appeared before PAC on March 1, 2004

David Marshall, Deputy Minister, PWGSC (June 2003 – Present); Appeared before PAC on Feb 24, 2004 and Feb 26, 2004

CCSB:

Chuck Guité, Director, Advertising and Research (1993 – Jan 1995); Director, Advertising and Public Opinion Research (APORS) (Jan 1995 – Nov 1997); Executive Director, Communications Coordination Services Branch (CCSB) (Nov 97 – Aug 99)

Pierre Tremblay, Executive Director, Communications Coordination Services Branch (CCSB) (Sept 99 – Sept 2001); Canadian Food Inspection Agency (Nov 2001 – Present)

Senior Officials from Canada Communications Group

Clerks of the Privy Council

Jocelyn Bourgeon

Mel Cappe

Alex Himelfarb

WHISTLEBLOWERS MINISTERS INVOLVED:

PWGSC

Minister of Public Works:

Hon. David Charles Dingwall: 4 Nov. 1993 - 24 Jan. 1996

Hon. Diane Marleau: 25 Jan. 1996 - 11 July 1996

Minister of Public Works and Government Services:

Hon. Diane Marleau: 12 July 1996 - 10 June 1997

Hon. Alfonso Gagliano: 11 June 1997 - 14 Jan. 2002

Hon. Don Boudria: 15 Jan. 2002 - 25 May 2002

Hon. Ralph Goodale: 26 May 2002 -11 Dec. 2003

TBS

President of the Treasury Board:

Hon. Arthur C. Eggleton: 4 Nov. 1993 - 24 Jan. 1996

Hon. Marcel Massé: 25 Jan. 1996 - 2 Aug. 1999

Hon. Lucienne Robillard: 3 Aug. 1999 -11 Dec. 2003

INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS:

Advertising Standards of Canada

OTHER SELECTED MINISTERS:

Hon. Anne McLellan, P.C., M.P.

Hon. David Anderson, P.C., M.P.

Hon. Andy Scott, P.C., M.P.

Hon. David Dingwall, P.C.

Hon. Denis Coderre, P.C., M.P.

GRANT RECIPIENTS:

EXPERTS ON MINISTERIAL ACCOUNTABILITY

Nick D’Ombrain

Jim Mitchell

Ercel Baker

Jack Manion

Donald Savoie

Patrick Boyer

Arthur Kroeger

Alan McEachan

John Stewart

John Roberts

David Zussman

Professor Ken Kernaghan

Professor Sandy Borins

OTHER WITNESSES:

Mario Lague

Bruce Hartley

Karl Littler

Terrie O’Leary

Warren Kinsella

Jean Carle

Pierre Lesieur

Albano Gidaro

Jean Marc Bard

Elly Alboim, Earnscliffe

Jacques Hudon, Groupaction

Senator David Smith

Raymond Garneau

Daniel Dezain

Stephen LeDrew

Senator Paul Massicotte

Buryl Wiseman

Giuseppe Morselli

Francoise Patry

Pierre Brodeur

Vincenzo Gagliano

Howard Wilson

Senator Wilfred Moore – Chairman of the Bluenose II Preservation Trust

Certified Fraud Examiner or Money Laundering Expert from the RCMP

Rt. Hon. Jean Chretien, P.C.

Rt. Hon. Paul Martin, P.C., M.P.

It was agreed, — That, pursuant to the Committee’s consideration of Chapter 3, the Sponsorship Program, Chapter 4, Advertising Activities and Chapter 5, Management of Public Opinion Research of the November 2003 Report of the Auditor General of Canada referred to the Committee on February 10, 2004, for any invitation to a witness to appear which has not received a positive response within two business days, the Clerk be authorized to issue an immediate summons.

It was agreed, — That the Committee instruct the House of Commons and the Library of Parliament to provide all support necessary to assist the Clerks and Researchers in meeting the increased work demands associated with the Committee's study of Chapters 3, 4 and 5 of the November 2003 Report of the Auditor General into the Sponsorship Matter.

It was agreed, — That beginning on April 19, 2004, the Committee sit according to the following schedule:

- On alternate Mondays: 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. (1st Monday sitting on April 19, 2004)

- Tuesdays: 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m.

- Wednesdays: 3:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.

- Thursdays: 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m..

It was agreed, — That the order of questioning of witnesses be as follows:

- Round 1: One Conservative, one Bloc Québécois, one Liberal, one NDP (8 minutes each)

- Round 2: One Conservative, one Liberal, one Bloc Québécois, one Liberal (8 minutes each)

- Round 3: One Conservative, two Liberals (4 minutes each)

- Round 4: One Conservative, two Liberals (4 minutes each).

It was agreed, — That the Researchers prepare a preliminary draft report for the Committee based on the Evidence received from February 12 to April 2, 2004 as it relates to Chapters 3,4 and 5 of the November 2003 Report of the Auditor General related to the sponsorship matter for the consideration of the Committee at its meeting of April 14, 2004.

It was agreed, — That the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel reply to the letter of March 25, 2004 from the Secretary of the Treasury Board to inform him that the Committee notes the policy set out therin but maintains reservations with regard to the policy's application.

It was agreed, — That in relation to the study of Chapters 3, 4,and 5 of the November 2003 Report of the Auditor General regarding the Sponsorship Matter, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts request from PWGSC both the First and Second Administrative Review Reports of Sponsorship Files, which were conducted by Kroll Lindquest Avery for PWGSC, in their entirety.

At 5:49 p.m., the Subcommittee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Elizabeth B. Kingston
Committee Clerk

2004/04/07 3:14 p.m.