PACC Committee Meeting

STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

COMITÉ PERMANENT DES COMPTES PUBLICS

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Wednesday, December 10, 1997

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[English]

The Chairman (Mr. John Williams (St. Albert, Ref.)): Order.

The orders of the day are the report of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure. Then, pursuant to Standing Order 108.(3)(e), the committee will proceed to sit in camera to consider the draft report on chapter 19 of the April and October 1997 report of the Auditor General of Canada, “Transport Canada—The commercialization of the Air Navigation System”.

For the benefit of the full committee, the steering committee has put forth their recommendations for the issues from the December 1997 report of the Auditor General and have indicated, on a priority basis, the following chapters: chapter 25, “Citizenship and Immigration Canada and Immigration and Refugee Board—The Processing of Refugee Claims”, which would be the number one priority; followed by chapter 28, “Fisheries and Oceans Canada—Pacific Salmon: Sustainability of the Resource Base”.

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Mr. Philip Mayfield (Cariboo—Chilcotin, Ref.): We have quorum.

The Chairman: We have quorum. Thank you, Mr. Mayfield.

We have also the three issues on Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, dealing with on-reserve capital facilities and maintenance from the 1995 report, chapter 23; escalating costs of on-reserve water supply projects not adequately justified; and lack of compliance with funding arrangement results in questionable costs and benefits. These three would be lumped into one item.

We have chapter 29, “Industry Canada—Management of the Small Loans Business Program”. We have after that chapter 27, “Ozone Layer Protection: The Unfinished Journey”, and chapter 30, “Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions—Insurance and Pensions”.

After we'll have gone through that, we have also indicated that if time permits we can deal with chapters 31 and 32 together, which are Revenue Canada, and the issue of Correctional Service Canada, custody of inmates, which is a review of the 1994 chapter 16.

So those were the indications of the steering committee.

There was also one person who put forth the combination of travel and hospitality, a review of chapter 7 of the 1995 report, together with the Canada Labour Relations Board.

So these are the order of priority that the subcommittee is reporting to the main committee. We'll leave it up to the clerk to arrange for the witnesses from the Auditor General's office and the departments, hopefully in that order, but depending on their availability the order may change somewhat.

Mrs. Sue Barnes (London West, Lib.): Are we going to do all of these then for sure, or should we take the top eight or nine?

The Chairman: We'll start at the top and move down and we'll take what—

Mrs. Sue Barnes: Why don't we approve the top eight or nine, then?

The Chairman: There were only about nine.

Mrs. Sue Barnes: Okay, that's fine. It's just that I don't want to have the last priority first just because they're easier to get but I have no interest really on that.

The Chairman: That's why I listed them. Yes, I appreciate that. I hope they will follow pretty well in the order we had indicated.

All in favour of the report of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure.

(Motion agreed to—See Minutes of Proceedings)

The Chairman: Also on a trial basis, through until the Easter break.... It gets back to the issue of briefing meetings that were full, regular meetings of the committee. Some people raised concerns about that, the requirement of quorum and so on, saying that they were quite happy to do their own research and reading without showing up at a briefing. The committee is going still to have two meetings a week, and on Wednesday night there will be an informal briefing by the auditor general's staff. There will be no quorum. The chair will be here for decorum only. No motions of any kind will be accepted. It will not even be classified as a meeting of the public accounts committee. In essence, it will be an in camera briefing by the Auditor General for members of the public accounts committee only.

Mr. Philip Mayfield: Does that include the staff, the librarian and the clerk?

The Chairman: Yes, I think so, and MPs' staffs of course are—

Mrs. Sue Barnes: But I don't think staff could ask questions.

The Chairman: No. That's agreed.

Mrs. Sue Barnes: Just MPs.

The Chairman: But they wouldn't be excluded from the room.

Interpretation will also be available.

Mrs. Sue Barnes: Mr. Mayfield, we thought a notice should go out, even though it won't say “notice of meeting”.

Mr. Philip Mayfield: I would appreciate that.

The Chairman: So we'll run regular scheduled meetings and this briefing by the Auditor General. It's not a meeting. That will be on a trial basis until Easter, at which time the steering committee will revisit the issue.

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Moving on to the draft report on “Transport Canada—Commercialization of the Air Navigation System”, the steering committee has been through the report and agreed, with one exception. We'll debate that when we come to it.

Mr. Myers.

Mr. Lynn Myers (Waterloo—Wellington, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I think the sentence should read, starting after the comma on line 2 “certain of its actions may create an impression that the process could be improved”.

The Chairman: Okay, when we come to that—

Mr. Mac Harb (Ottawa Centre, Lib.): On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, are we in camera now?

The Chairman: If you want to go in camera, I'll accept a motion.

Do we need a motion, Mr. Clerk?

Are we all in favour of going in camera?

Mr. Mac Harb: Normally, in situations like this, when you consider a draft report prepared by staff, is it the tradition of the committee to go in camera for that?

The Chairman: Yes. We normally do.

Mr. Mac Harb: Then I would like to move that we go in camera, Mr. Chair.

(Motion agreed to)

[Editor's Note: Proceedings continue in camera]