FINA Committee Meeting

Meeting No. 55

Thursday, November 20, 1997

The Standing Committee on Finance met at 9:19 o’clock a.m., this day, in room 308, West Block, the Chair, Maurizio Bevilacqua, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Mark Assad, Maurizio Bevilacqua, Roger Gallaway, Dick Harris, David Iftody, Jim Jones, Gary Pillitteri, Karen Redman, Paul Szabo, Paddy Torsney and Tony Valeri.

Acting Members present: Diane Ablonczy for Gerry Ritz, Paul Crête for Yvan Loubier and Joe Fontana for Mark Assad to 11:25 a.m.

Witnesses: From the Department of Finance: Hal Hanes, Chief, Income Security Section; George Marshall, Senior Policy Officer, Income Security Programs; Wayne Foster, Chief, Government Financing Section; Diane Lafleur, Senior Project Leader, Pension Group; Douglas R. Wyatt, General Counsel, General Legal Services. From the Department of Human Resources Development: Cathy Drummond, Director General, Income Security Programs; Terry de March, Director Legislation, Income Security Programs; Rod Hagglund, Special Advisor, Social Policy.

The Committee resumed its examination of Bill C-2, An Act to establish the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and to amend the Canada Pension Plan and the Old Age Security and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. (See Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, October 28, Meeting No. 30).

The Chair called for clause by clause consideration of the bill.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed, --That where no amendments are proposed to a series of clauses, the Chair be authorized to group the clauses for debate and voting.

Consideration of Clause 1 was postponed pursuant to Standing Order 75(1).

Clauses 2 to 7 were carried severally.

Clause 8 carried.

Clause 9 carried.

On Clause 10

Diane Ablonczy moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 10, be amended by replacing line 4 on page 5 with the following:

"behaviour for such term, not exceeding six"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Diane Ablonczy moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 10, be amended by replacing line 9 on page 5 with the following:

"(2) The Minister shall establish a committee"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on division.

Jim Jones moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 10, be amended by replacing line 22 on page 5 with the following:

"tion (8). If one third of the participating provinces with one third of the population object in writing to a proposed appointment within 30 of the day of consultation, the Minister shall not make any recommendation with respect to that appointment."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Lorne Nystrom moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 10, be amended by replacing line 30 on page 5 with the following:

"the board of directors balanced representation between the labour and the business community and a sufficient number of"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clause 10 carried on the following division.

Clause 11 carried.

On Clause 12

Diane Ablonczy moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 12, be amended by replacing lines 1 to 6 on page 7 with the following:

"12. (1) The Governor in Council shall appoint one of the directors as Chairperson upon the advice of a majority of the directors to"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

Paddy Torsney moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 12, be amended

(a) by replacing lines 5 and 6 on page 7 with the following:

"Ministers of the participating provinces, designate one of the directors as Chairperson to"

(b) by deleting lines 10 to 12 on page 7.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Clause 12 as amended carried.

Clauses 13 to 41 carried severally.

On Clause 42

Lorne Nystrom moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 42, be amended by replacing lines 39 to 45 on page 21, and lines 1 to 6, on page 22 with the following:

"42. The Auditor General of Canada is the auditor of the Board."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

Clause 42 carried.

Clause 43 carried.

On Clause 44

Jim Jones moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 44, be amended by adding after line 32 on page 24 the following:

"(5) Subsections (1) and (2) apply to access to information requested by the Auditor General of Canada."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

Clause 44 carried.

Clauses 45 and 46 carried severally.

On Clause 47

Jim Jones moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 47, be amended by replacing lines 10 and 11 on page 25 with the following:

"47. (1) The Minister shall cause a special examination to be carried out every five years in respect of the"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

Clause 47 carried.

Clause 48 carried.

On Clause 49

Jim Jones moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 49, be amended by replacing lines 10 to 20 on page 26 with the following:

"49. (1) A special examination referred to in section 47 shall be carried out by the Auditor General of Canada.

(2) The Auditor General may, on completion of the special examination, submit the report of the findings to the House of Commons."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

Jim Jones moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 49, be amended by adding after line 20 on page 26 the following:

"49.1 The Report of a special audit referred to in section 46 and the special examination referred to in section 47 shall be made available to the public. "

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

Clause 49 carried.

On Clause 50

Jim Jones moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 50, be amended by replacing line 26 on page 26 with the following:

"month period to which it relates and the Board shall make copies of the statements available to the public."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on division.

Clause 50 carried.

Clause 51 carried.

Clauses 52 and 53 carried.

On Clause 54

Diane Ablonczy moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 54, be amended:

(a) by replacing lines 43 and 44 on page 28 with the following:"

"not exceeding $500,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years, or to’’

(b) by replacing line 2 on page 29 with the following:

$2,500,000.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on division

Clause 54 carried.

Clauses 55 to 57 carried severally.

Clause 58 carried.

Clauses 59 to 87 carried severally.

On Clause 88

Tony Valeri moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 88, be amended by replacing line 26 on page 63 with the following:

"(2) In addition to an individual's right of access under section 12 of the Privacy Act, information with respect to an individu-"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Tony Valeri moved, -- That Bill C-2, in Clause 88, be amended by replacing lines 18 to 29 on page 64 with the following:

"Resources Development, for the purpose of the administration of this Act.

(2) Information may be made available to the minister responsible for, and to any public officer of,

(3) Notwithstanding any other Act or law, any information obtained by a public officer of the Department of National Revenue, the Department of Finance, the Department of Public Works and Government Services or the Department of Citizenship and Immigration for the purpose of the administration of this Act may be made available or allowed to be made available by that person to a public officer of the Department of Human Resources Development, the Department of National Revenue, the Department of Finance, the Department of Public Works and Government Services, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration or the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions for the purpose of the administration of this Act.

(4) Information obtained under this section shall not be made available to any other"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Tony Valeri moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 88, be amended by replacing line 9 on page 65 with the following:

"of a federal law or activity or a provincial law if the"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Tony Valeri moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 88, be amended by replacing lines 26 and 27 on page 65 with the following:

"purpose of the administration of a federal law or activity or a provincial law, if the Minister"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Tony Valeri moved, -- That Bill C-2, in Clause 88, be amended by adding after line 39 on page 65 the following:

"(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a federal institution not mentioned in section 104.03."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Clause 88 as amended carried.

Clauses 89 to 93 carried severally.

Clause 94 carried.

Clause 95 carried.

Clause 96 carried.

On Clause 97

Lorne Nystsrom moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 97, be amended by replacing lines 18 and 19 on page 82 with the following:

"96.1 Subsection 116(7) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(7) It is the duty of the Advisory Board to review from time to time, as it deems appropriate or advisable, the operation of this Act, the state of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Fund, the adequacy of coverage and benefits under this Act, whether the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board has invested its assets with a view to maximizing employment and income growth in Canada, and to report to the Minister the results of that review.

97. The heading before section 117 and section 117 of the Act are replaced"

After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn by the mover.

Diane Ablonczy moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 97, be amended by replacing lines 18 and 19 on page 82 with the following:

"97. The heading before section 117 of the Act and section 117 of the Act are replaced"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

Clause 97 carried.

Clauses 98 to 101 carried severally.

On Clause 102

Tony Valeri moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 102, be amended by replacing line 20 on page 85 with the following:

"(2) In addition to an individual's right of access under section 12 of the Privacy Act, information with respect to an individu-"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Tony Valeri moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 102, be amended by replacing lines 6 to 17 on page 86 with the following:

"Resources Development, for the purpose of the administration of this Act.

(2) Information may be made available to the minister responsible for, and to any public officer of,

(3) Information obtained under this section shall not be made available to any other"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Tony Valeri moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 102, be amended by replacing line 36 on page 86 with the following:

"of a federal law or activity or a provincial law if the"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Tony Valeri moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 102, be amended by replacing lines 12 and 13 on page 87 with the following:

"purpose of the administration of a federal law or activity or a provincial law, if the Minister"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Tony Valeri moved, --That Bill C-2, in Clause 102, be amended by adding after line 25 on page 87 the following:

"(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a federal institution not mentioned in section 33.03."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Clause 102 as amended, carried.

Clauses 103 to 108 carried severally.

On Clause 109

Jim Jones proposed to move, --That Bill C-2 be amended by adding after line 20, on page 97, the following:

Canada Pension Plan Investment Board

Office d’investissement du régime de pensions du Canada"

The Chair ruled on the acceptability of the proposed amendment.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

Jim Jones raised a Point of Order to indicate that the amendment had been incorrectly drafted and should have referred to the Schedule in the Access to Information Act.

The Chair ruled that the same conditions applied and quoted the same ruling to declare the proposed amendment out of order.

Clause 109 carried.

Clause 110 carried.

The Schedule carried.

The Title carried.

The Bill, as amended, carried on division.

Ordered, --That Bill C-2, An Act to establish the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and to amend the Canada Pension Plan and the Old Age Security and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House of Commons at the Report Stage.

Ordered, --That the Chair report Bill C-2, as amended, to the House.

At 11:40 o’clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Carol Chafe

Clerk of the Committee