Rules of Debate / Order of Speakers and length of speeches

Mover of a motion not intervening in debate: time limits for second and third speakers

March 19, 1992

Debates, pp. 8480, 8490-1

On March 18, 1992, the Hon. Shirley Martin (Minister of State (Transport)) moved, on behalf of the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development (Hon. Tom Siddon), the motion for the second reading and reference to Legislative Committee B of Bill C-51, respecting water resources in the Northwest Territories. Neither the Minister of State, however, nor any Government Member spoke to the Bill at that time. Mr. Jim Fulton (Skeena) was recognized for debate and spoke until the end of Government Orders for that day.^[1]

On March 19, the House resumed consideration of the motion for second reading and reference of Bill C-51. When Mr. Fulton completed his remarks, the Acting Speaker (Mr. Charles DeBlois) informed the House that the length of speeches would now be a maximum of twenty minutes with a question and comment period. He reminded Members that although the Minister moving the motion had not spoken, the speaking time of forty minutes was deemed to have expired.^[2]

On a point of order, Mr. Peter Milliken (Kingston and the Islands) rose to point out that the Standing Orders allowed the first two speakers forty minutes each. Even though the next speaker to be recognized (Hon. Bill Rompkey (Labrador)) might not need forty minutes on this occasion, Mr. Milliken expressed concern that this would stand as a precedent. He argued that as the second speaker, Mr. Rompkey should have the option of speaking for forty minutes.^[3]

The Acting Speaker repeated his previous comments, but also indicated he would review the matter. Following Mr. Rompkey's speech and the question and comment period, the Acting Speaker once again addressed the House on this matter. His original and additional remarks are reproduced in extenso below.

Decision of the Chair

The Acting Speaker (Mr. DeBlois): The Chair was of course careful to check this technical aspect. The first speaker was for the Government and is deemed to have spoken, even if he did not actually do so. The Government presented a motion to table this Bill. So that was the first speaker, and his 40 minutes speaking time has expired, although technically, the 40 minutes were really only 15 seconds.

In any case, I can reconsider and check again with the staff of the House regarding the opinion expressed by the honourable Member for Kingston and the Islands, who is an expert on the Standing Orders of the House. However, this is the information I have so far. Consequently, I am prepared to recognize, for not more than 20 minutes, the honourable Member for Labrador, even if it means checking again....

Before resuming debate, since the honourable Member for Kingston and the Islands seems to have some reservations about the ruling I gave earlier today that the honourable Member for Labrador was the third speaker and was therefore entitled to not more than 20 minutes, I just want to mention one of the sources on which I based my ruling. I am referring to the Precis of Procedure of the House of Commons, Fourth Edition, which says that the Speaker may […] recognize the mover if the latter so desires, and otherwise any other Member. However, the mover must speak first, if he wishes to speak, because by the very fact of presenting the motion, he is deemed to have spoken-this is important, he is deemed to have spoken-and the Chair will not be able to recognize him again later on.^[4] So even if last night the mover did not speak, according to the Standing Orders he is nevertheless deemed to have spoken because he presented the motion. Technically, the honourable Member for Labrador became the third speaker. I just wanted to add this clarification to the ruling I gave this morning.

On March 30, 1992, during debate on the motion for third reading of a Government Bill, the Acting Speaker (Hon. Steven Paproski) interrupted Mr. Pierre Vincent (Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance), who was under the impression that he was the second speaker. On this occasion also, the Acting Speaker explained to the House that the mover of the motion is deemed to have spoken even though he or she did not actually speak in debate. Therefore, the Parliamentary Secretary was the third speaker and entitled to make a twenty minute speech only followed by a ten minute Questions and Comments Period.^[5]

F0704-e

34-3

1992-03-19