MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 1995
(Meeting No. 189)
(Meeting No. 189)
[Text]
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met on a televised session at 10:50 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 253-D, Centre Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Diane Ablonczy, Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Gar Knutson, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay and Paddy Torsney.
Acting Members present: Warren Allmand for Martin Cauchon; Shaughnessy Cohen for Russell MacLellan; Bernard Deshaies for François Langlois; Paul DeVillers for Roger Gallaway; Paul Forseth for Art Hanger and Derek Wells for Geoff Regan.
Associate Members present: Andrew Telegdi and Derek Wells.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst, Patricia Begin and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officers.
Appearing: The Hon. Allan Rock, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.
Witness: From the Department of Justice: Mary-Anne Kirvan, Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section.
In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), the Committee began consideration of the comprehensive review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), in particular, issues relating to youth crime, the youth justice system and the operation and implementation of the Young Offenders Act.
The Minister made an opening statement and with Mary-Anne Kirvan, answered questions.
At 12:30 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 1995
(Meeting No. 190)
(Meeting No. 190)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:40 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 371, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Paddy Torsney.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Patricia Begin, Research Officer.
Witnesses: From Canadian Criminal Justice Association: Arnold Snyder, Co-Chair, Policy Review Committee; Matthew Yeager, Criminologist, Secretary to Policy Review Committee; Cécile Toutant, Head, Adolescent Unit, Institut Philippe-Pinel, Montreal and President-Elect, CCJA; Roger Brunette, Director, Professional Services, Centre Jeunesse de l'Outaouais; Jane Fjeld, Community Support Team of the Eastern Ontario Young Offender Services. From Canadian Teacher's Federation: Maureen Morris, President; Damien Solomon, Assistant Director, Professional Development Services. From the Canadian School Boards Association: Pat Crossman, President; Marie Pierce, Executive Director. From the Canadian Association of School Administrators: Fred Grant, Superintendent, School District #2 Moncton, N.B. From the Canadian Home and School and Parent-Teacher Federation: Maybelle Durkin, Executive Director.
In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), the Committee resumed consideration of the comprehensive review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), in particular, issues relating to youth crime, the youth justice system and the operation and implementation of the Young Offenders Act. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, November 20, 1995, Issue No. 115, Meeting No. 189)
Cécile Toutant and Arnold Snyder, from the Canadian Criminal Justice Association, each made an opening statement and with Matthew Yeager, Jane Fjeld and Roger Brunette, answered questions.
At 11:03 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 11:10 o'clock a.m., the sitting resumed.
Maureen Morris, from the Canadian Teacher's Federation, made an opening statement and with Damien Solomon, answered questions.
Pat Crossman, from the Canadian School Boards Association, made an opening statement and with Marie Pierce, answered questions.
Fred Grant, from the Canadian Association of School Administrators, made an opening and answered questions.
Maybelle Durkin, from the Canadian Home and School and Parent-Teacher Federation, made an opening statement and answered questions.
At 12:30 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Richard Dupuis
Clerk of the Committee
Miriam Burke
Co-Clerk of the Committee
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 1995
(Meeting No. 191)
The Evidence for this meeting is not available because it was held in camera.
(Meeting No. 191)
The Evidence for this meeting is not available because it was held in camera.
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met in camera at 3:35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon and Patricia Begin, Research Officers.
Witness: David Arnot.
In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), the Committee resumed consideration of the comprehensive review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), in particular, issues relating to youth crime, the youth justice system and the operation and implementation of the Young Offenders Act. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, November 20, 1995, Issue No. 115, Meeting No. 189)
The witness made an opening statement and answered questions.
At 5:00 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Miriam Burke
Co-Clerk of the Committee
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 1995
(Meeting No. 192)
(Meeting No. 192)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:30 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 200, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, François Langlois, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Paddy Torsney.
Acting Member present: Patrick Gagnon for Russell MacLellan.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Patricia Begin, Research Officer.
Witnesses: From the John Howard Society: Susan Reid-MacNevin, Vice-President, Issues, John Howard Society of Canada; Jim McLatchie, Executive Director, John Howard Society of Canada; Graham Stewart, Executive Director, John Howard Society of Ontario; Christine Leonard, Executive Director, John Howard Society of Alberta.
In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), the Committee resumed consideration of the comprehensive review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), in particular, issues relating to youth crime, the youth justice system and the operation and implementation of the Young Offenders Act. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, November 20, 1995, Issue No. 115, Meeting No. 189)
On motion of Geoff Regan, it was agreed,--That the Committee postpone hearings in the Maritimes scheduled for the week of November 27, 1995, to a later date, to be determined by the Committee.
The witnesses made opening statements and answered questions.
At 5:00 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Richard Dupuis
Clerk of the Committee
Miriam Burke
Co-Clerk of the Committee
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 1995
(Meeting No. 193)
(Meeting No. 193)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:35 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.
Acting Members present: Paul DeVillers for Beth Phinney and Derek Wells for Russell MacLellan.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Patricia Begin, Research Officer.
Witnesses: From the National Crime Prevention Council: Ross Hastings, President; Joan Pennell, Chair, Committee on Youth. From the Child Welfare League of Canada: Vaughan Dowie, President; Sandra Scarth, Executive Director; Sarah Lugtig, Batshaw Family and Youth Centres, Montreal.
In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), the Committee resumed consideration of the comprehensive review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), in particular, issues relating to youth crime, the youth justice system and the operation and implementation of the Young Offenders Act. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, November 20, 1995, Issue No. 115, Meeting No. 189)
Ross Hastings and Joan Pennell, from the National Crime Prevention Council, each made an opening statement and answered questions.
At 10:53 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 11:06 o'clock a.m., the sitting resumed.
Sandra Scarth and Vaughan Dowie, from the Child Welfare League of Canada, each made an opening statement and with Sarah Lugtig from the Batshaw Family and Youth Centres, answered questions.
At 12:25 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Richard Dupuis
Clerk of the Committee
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 1995
(Meeting No. 194)
(Meeting No. 194)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 10:00 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 209, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay and Paddy Torsney.
Acting Member present: Shaughnessy Cohen for Martin Cauchon.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Patricia Begin, Research Officer.
The Committee proceeded to its future business.
The Chair presented the Nineteenth Report of the Committee.
On motion of Shaughnessy Cohen, it was agreed,--That the following recommendations be adopted:
On Bill C-110
It was agreed to invite the Minister of Justice as soon as the Bill is referred to the Committee.
It was agreed that Members of the Sub-Committee send to the Clerk a list of suggested witnesses.
On Bill C-232
It was agreed to proceed to the Clause-by-clause consideration on Thursday, December 7, 1995 at 9:30 a.m.
At 10:05 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
MONDAY, DECEMBER 4, 1995
(Meeting No. 195)
(Meeting No. 195)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 7:15 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 253-D, Centre Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Art Hanger, Gar Knutson, François Langlois, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney and Jack Ramsay.
Acting Members present: Shaughnessy Cohen for Geoff Regan; John Maloney for Martin Cauchon; John English for Paddy Torsney; Patrick Gagnon for Gar Knutson; Patrick Gagnon for Martin Cauchon and Stephen Harper for Diane Ablonczy.
Associate Member present: Derek Wells.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mollie Dunsmuir, Research Officer. From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Jacques Lahaie, Committee Clerk.
Appearing: The Hon. Allan Rock, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.
The Order of Reference of Monday, December 4, 1995 being read as follows:
ORDERED,--That Bill C-110, An Act respecting constitutional amendments, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.
The Chair called Clause 1.
On Clause 1
The Minister made an opening statement and answered questions.
On motion of Beth Phinney, it was agreed,--That the Committee meet Tuesday morning, in the afternoon and Tuesday evening, Wednesday, from 2:00 p.m. to midnight.
That, by Wednesday, at 12:00 a.m., any proceedings before the Committee shall be interrupted, if required, and every question necessary for the disposal of the Bill at the Committee stage shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.
At 8:45 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Richard Dupuis
Clerk of the Committee
Miriam Burke
Co-Clerk of the Committee
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1995
(Meeting No. 196)
(Meeting No. 196)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:32 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Paddy Torsney.
Acting Member present: Stephen Harper for Diane Ablonczy.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mollie Dunsmuir, Research Officer.
Witness: From the Department of Justice: Mary Dawson, Associate Deputy Minister.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, December 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-110, An Act respecting constitutional amendments. (See Minutes of Proceedings, dated Monday, December 4, 1995, Issue No. 115)
On Clause 1
The witness answered questions.
At 10:30 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Richard Dupuis
Clerk of the Committee
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1995
(Meeting No. 197)
(Meeting No. 197)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:30 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Paddy Torsney.
Acting Members present: Claude Bachand for François Langlois and Deborah Grey for Diane Ablonczy.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mollie Dunsmuir, Research Officer.
Witness: by teleconference, FROM EDMONTON, ALBERTA: Dr. Dale Gibson, Constitutional lawyer, University of Alberta.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, December 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-110, An Act respecting constitutional amendments. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, December 4, 1995, Issue No. 115)
On Clause 1
The witness made an opening statement and answered questions.
At 4:20 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1995
(Meeting No. 198)
(Meeting No. 198)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 4:25 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Russell MacLellan, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Paddy Torsney.
Acting Members present: Claude Bachand for François Langlois and Deborah Grey for Diane Ablonczy.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mollie Dunsmuir, Research Officer.
Witnesses: From the Assembly of First Nations: Chief Ovide Mercredi, National Chief; Ghislain Picard, Vice-Chief (Québec).
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, December 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-110, An Act respecting constitutional amendments. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, December 4, 1995, Issue No. 115)
On Clause 1
Chief Ovide Mercredi made an opening statement and with Ghislain Picard, answered questions.
At 5:25 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1995
(Meeting No. 199)
(Meeting No. 199)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 5:35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Russell MacLellan, Jack Ramsay and Geoff Regan.
Acting Member present: Claude Bachand for François Langlois.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mollie Dunsmuir, Research Officer.
Witnesses: From the Grand Counsel of the Crees of Quebec: Grand Chief Matthew Coon Come; Andrew Orkin, Senior Counsel.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, December 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-110, An Act respecting constitutional amendments. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, December 4, 1995, Issue No. 115)
On Clause 1
Grand Chief Matthew Coon Come made an opening statement and with Andrew Orkin answered questions.
At 6:37 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Miriam Burke
Co-Clerk of the Committee
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1995
(Meeting No. 200)
(Meeting No. 200)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 7:32 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Paddy Torsney.
Other Member present: Deborah Grey.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Patricia Begin, Research Officer.
Witnesses: by teleconference FROM CALGARY, ALBERTA: Dr. F.L. (Ted) Morton, Professor of Political Science, University of Calgary; D. David Elton, Professor of Political Science and President of the Canada West Foundation.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, December 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-110, An Act respecting constitutional amendments. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, December 4, 1995, Issue No. 115)
On Clause 1
Professor Ted Morton made an opening statement and answered questions.
Professor David Elton made an opening statement and answered questions.
At 9:20 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Jacques Lahaie
Committee Clerk
WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 6, 1995
(Meeting No. 201)
(Meeting No. 201)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:15 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Pierre de Savoye, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Paddy Torsney.
Acting Members present: Shaughnessy Cohen for Martin Cauchon; John English for Sue Barnes and Stephen Harper for Diane Ablonczy.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Aanlyst and Mollie Dunsmuir, Research Officer.
Appearing: Russell MacLellan, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.
Witnesses: From the Department of Justice: Mary Dawson, Associate Deputy Minister. From the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada: Rosemary Kuptana, President; Wendy Moss, Advisor and Mary Sillett, Vice-President. From Makivik Corporation: Zebedee Nungak, President; Michael McGoldrick, Advisor; Sam Silverstone, Legal Counsel.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, December 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-110, An Act respecting constitutional amendments. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Monday, December 4, 1995, Issue No. 115, Meeting No. 195)
On Clause 1
Rosemary Kuptana made an opening statement and together with Wendy Moss and Mary Sillett, answered questions.
At 4:15 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 4:20 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Zebedee Nungak made an opening statement and with Michael McGoldrick and Sam Silverstone, answered questions.
At 5:00 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 5:05 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
The Committee proceeded to clause-by-clause consideration.
On Clause 1
Stephen Harper moved,--That Clause 1 be amended by replacing line 13, on page 1, with the following:
``to in a referendum by a majority of the electorate in each of the provinces that constitute the majority of the provinces, which majority shall include''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands: Yeas: 2; Nays: 9.
Jack Ramsay moved,--That Clause 1 be amended by deleting line 7, on page 1, and substituting the following:
``other than an amendment in respect to the Aboriginal Peoples of Canada or their rights, or an amendment''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Stephen Harper
Jack Ramsay--(2)
NAYS
Shaughnessy Cohen
Beth Phinney
John English
Geoff Regan
Roger Gallaway
Paddy Torsney
Gar Knutson
Pierrette Venne--(9)
Russell MacLellan
The question being put on Clause 1, it was agreed to, on division.
The title carried on division.
The Bill carried on division.
The witnesses answered questions.
ORDERED,--That the Chair report the Bill to the House as the Twelfth Report of the Committee.
At 5:15 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
THURSDAY, DECEMBER 7, 1995
(Meeting No. 202)
(Meeting No. 202)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 10:20 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.
Acting Members present: Shaughnessy Cohen for Martin Cauchon and Daphne Jennings for Diane Ablonczy.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Kristen Douglas and Patricia Begin, Research Officers. From the Legislative Counsel Office: Louis-Philippe Côté, Legislative Counsel; Robert Normand, Legislative Clerk.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting of access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent). (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, September 19, 1995, Issue No. 113, Meeting No. 165)
The Committee proceeded to Clause-by-clause consideration.
Gar Knutson moved,--That the Committee do now adjourn.
The questions being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Daphne Jennings
Geoff Regan
Gar Knutson
Paddy Torsney--(5)
Jack Ramsay
NAYS
Sue Barnes
Russell MacLellan
Shaughnessy Cohen
Beth Phinney
Roger Gallaway
Pierrette Venne--(6)
On Clause 1
Daphne Jennings moved,--That Clause 1 be amended by deleting lines 10 to 16 on page 1.
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Daphne Jennings
Jack Ramsay--(3)
Gar Knutson
NAYS
Sue Barnes
Beth Phinney
Shaughnessy Cohen
Geoff Regan
Roger Gallaway
Paddy Torsney
Russell MacLellan
Pierrette Venne--(8)
The question being put on Clause 1, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Daphne Jennings
Jack Ramsay--(3)
Gar Knutson
NAYS
Sue Barnes
Beth Phinney
Shaughnessy Cohen
Geoff Regan
Roger Gallaway
Paddy Torsney
Russell MacLellan
Pierrette Venne--(8)
The question being put on Clause 2, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Daphne Jennings
Jack Ramsay--(3)
Gar Knutson
NAYS
Sue Barnes
Beth Phinney
Shaughnessy Cohen
Geoff Regan
Roger Gallaway
Paddy Torsney
Russell MacLellan
Pierrette Venne--(8)
The question being put on Clause 3, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Daphne Jennings
Jack Ramsay--(2)
NAYS
Sue Barnes
Beth Phinney
Shaughnessy Cohen
Geoff Regan
Roger Gallaway
Paddy Torsney
Russell MacLellan
Pierrette Venne--(8)
The question being put on the title, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Daphne Jennings
Jack Ramsay--(3)
Gar Knutson
NAYS
Sue Barnes
Beth Phinney
Shaughnessy Cohen
Geoff Regan
Roger Gallaway
Paddy Torsney
Russell MacLellan
Pierrette Venne--(8)
The question being put on the Bill, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Daphne Jennings
Jack Ramsay--(2)
NAYS
Sue Barnes
Beth Phinney
Shaughnessy Cohen
Geoff Regan
Roger Gallaway
Paddy Torsney
Russell MacLellan
Pierrette Venne--(8)
The Chair moved,--That a report be presented to the House, stating that the Committee has taken evidence, considered the subject extensively and having gone through the Bill clause-by-clause wish to report that they have disagreed to same.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
Daphne Jennings
Jack Ramsay--(2)
NAYS
Sue Barnes
Beth Phinney
Shaughnessy Cohen
Geoff Regan
Roger Gallaway
Paddy Torsney
Gar Knutson
Pierrette Venne--(9)
Russell MacLellan
At 10:45 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
THURSDAY, DECEMBER 7, 1995
(Meeting No. 203)
(Meeting No. 203)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 11:05 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Diane Ablonczy, Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Pierrette Venne.
Acting Member present: Shaughnessy Cohen for Martin Cauchon.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mary C. Hurley, Research Officer.
Witnesses: From the Department of Justice: Richard Mosley, Assistant Deputy Minister; David Paget, Senior General Counsel, Corporate Policy Group; Deborah McCorkell-Hoy, Director, Law Reform Division.
The Order of Reference of Monday, October 23, 1995 being read as follows:
ORDERED,--That Bill C-106, An Act respecting the Law Commission of Canada, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.
The Chair called Clause 2.
Richard Mosley made an opening statement and with David Paget and Deborah McCorkell-Hoy, answered questions.
At 12:15 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 12, 1995
(Meeting No. 204)
(Meeting No. 204)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 11:07 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Diane Ablonczy, Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Martin Cauchon, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.
Other Member present: Mary Clancy.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mary C. Hurley, Research Officer.
Witnesses: From the Canadian Bar Association: Gordon F. Proudfoot, President; Christopher Curran, Chair, Legislation and Law Reform Committee; Joan Bercovitch, Senior Director, Legal and Governmental Affairs. From le Barreau du Québec: Me Claude Masse, Vice-President; Carole Brosseau, Secretary, Standing Committee on Criminal Law.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, October 23, 1995 relating to Bill C-106, An Act respecting the Law Commission of Canada. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Thursday, December 7, 1995, Issue No. 115, Meeting No. 203)
On Clause 2
Joan Bercovitch and Gordon F. Proudfoot each made an opening statement and with Christopher Curran, answered questions.
At 11:40 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 11:45 o'clock a.m., the sitting resumed.
Me Claude Masse and Me Carole Brosseau each made opening statement and answered questions.
At 12:20 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 12, 1995
(Meeting No. 205)
(Meeting No. 205)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:30 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Diane Ablonczy, Morris Bodnar, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Pierrette Venne.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mary C. Hurley, Research Officer.
Witness: From the Office of the Auditor General: Richard Fadden, Assistant Auditor General and Legal Counsel, Audit Operations.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, October 23, 1995 relating to Bill C-106, An Act respecting the Law Commission of Canada. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Thursday, December 7, 1995, Issue No. 115, Meeting No. 203)
On Clause 2
Richard Fadden made an opening statement and answered questions.
At 4:20 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 13, 1995
(Meeting No. 206)
(Meeting No. 206)
The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 112-N, Centre Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Diane Ablonczy, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan and Pierrette Venne.
Acting Members present: Shaughnessy Cohen for Martin Cauchon and John Harvard for Paddy Torsney.
In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Mary C. Hurley, Research Officer.
Appearing: Russell MacLellan, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.
Witnesses: From the Department of Justice: David Paget, Senior General Counsel, Corporate Policy Group; Deborah McCorkell-Hoy, Director, Law Reform Division.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, October 23, 1995 relating to Bill C-106, An Act respecting the Law Commission of Canada. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Thursday, December 7, 1995, Issue No. 115, Meeting No. 203)
The Chair presented the Twentieth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure following the meeting of Tuesday, December 12, 1995.
It was agreed that the following recommendations be adopted:
Y.O.A. (Phase II)
To invite witnesses from Ottawa for the week of February 5 and the week of February 12, 1996.
(I) Travel to Maritimes (February 18 to February 23, 1996):
It was agreed,--That pursuant to its mandate in relation to the Comprehensive Review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), and specifically, to observe how the youth justice system operates in practice, the Committee request the authorization from the House, to travel to Halifax and Sydney, Nova Scotia and Charlottetown, P.E.I., from Sunday, February 18 to Friday, February 23, 1996, in order to hold public hearings, visit sites (young offender facilities and programmes) and meet with officials and that the necessary staff do accompany the Committee.
N.B. The budget for this trip has already been adopted by the Committee.
(II) Travel to Ontario (March 3 to March 8, 1996):
It was agreed,--That pursuant to its mandate in relation to the Comprehensive Review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), and specifically, to observe how the youth justice system operates in practice, the Committee request the authorization from the House, to travel to Toronto and London, Ontario from Sunday, March 3 to Friday March 8, 1996, in order to hold public hearings, visit sites (young offender facilities and programmes) and meet with officials and that the necessary staff do accompany the Committee.
It was agreed,--That the maximum amount of the budget for this trip be $36,132.16.
(III) Travel to Quebec (March 24 to March 29, 1996):
It was agreed,--That, pursuant to its mandate in relation to the Comprehensive Review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), and specifically, to observe how the youth justice system operates in practice, the Committee request the authorization from the House, to travel to Montréal and Québec, Québec from Sunday, March 24 to Friday, March 29, 1996, in order to hold public hearings, visit sites (young offender facilities and programmes) and meet with officials and that the necessary staff do accompany the Committee.
It was agreed,--That the maximum amount of the budget for this trip be $ 34,848.00.
Bill C-106
To proceed to the clause-by-clause consideration on Wednesday, December 13, 1995.
Bill C-240 (Dangerous Offenders) re: Val Meredith, M.P.
To begin Public Hearings in February and in March 1996.
To invite at the beginning two (2) constitutional experts in order to discuss charter issues.
To invite two (2) correctional law experts.
Bill C-226 (Section 745 of the Criminal Code) re: John Nunziata, M.P.
To begin Public Hearings in March 1996.
Operational Budget
It was agreed,--That, for the activities of the Committee in February and March 1996, the Committee request from the Budget Sub-Committee of the Liaison Committee the following amounts:
$15,000.00 for witnesses in and outside of Ottawa (30 meetings);
$5,000.00 for Miscellaneous Expenses (coffee, 5 Dubois Criminal Codes, Priority Post, etc.); and
for hiring Ginette DeRepentigny on a part-time basis, on the comprehensive review of the Young Offenders Act, as per the attached appendix, and to pay $22.95 per hour up to a maximum of $3,098.25 for her services.
The Committee proceeded to Clause-by-clause consideration.
Clause 2 carried on division.
Clause 3 carried on division.
On Clause 3
Gart Knutson moved,--That Clause 3 be amended by striking out line 19 on page 2 and substituting the following:
``will ensure a just legal system that meets the changing needs of Canadian''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on division.
The question being put on Clause 3, as amended, it was carried on division.
Clause 4 carried on division.
On Clause 5
Diane Ablonczy moved,-That Clause 5 be amended by replacing line 28, on page 3, with the following:
``(a) consult with the Minister of Justice and the committee of the House of Commons that normally considers matters relating to justice with''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was, by a show of hands, negatived: Yeas: 3; Nays: 7.
The question being put on Clause 5, it was carried on division.
Clause 6 carried.
On Clause 7
Diane Ablonczy moved,-That Clause 7 be amended by replacing line 4, on page 4, with the following:
``recommendation of the Minister of Justice and after consultation with the committee of the House of Commons that normally considers matters relating to justice.''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was by a show of hands, negatived: Yeas: 3; Nays: 7.
Beth Phinney moved,-That Clause 7 be amended by striking out line 11 and 12 on page 4 and substituting the following:
``nomic and cultural diversity of Canada, represent various disciplines and reflect knowledge of the common law and civil law system."
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was, by a show of hands, agreed to: Yeas: 7; Nays: 1.
The question being put on Clause 7, as amended, it was carried on division.
Clause 8 to Clause 16 inclusive, severally carried on division.
Clause 17 carried on division.
On Clause 18
Roger Gallaway moved,--That Clause 18 be amended
(a) by striking out line 29 on page 6 and substituting the following:
``less than twelve or more than twenty-four members appointed by''
(b) by adding, immediately after line 32 on page 6, the following:
``(1.1) In appointing persons as members of the Council, the Commission shall not restrict consideration to members of the legal community.
(1.2) As a group, the members of the Council should be broadly representative of the socio-economic and cultural diversity of Canada, represent various disciplines and reflect knowledge of the common law and civil law systems.''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on division.
The question being put on Clause 18, as amended, it was carried on division.
On Clause 19
Geoff Regan moved,--That clause 19 of Bill C-106 be amended by striking out lines 1 to 6 on page 7 and substituting the following:
``19. The Council shall advise the Commission on the Commission's strategic directions and long-term program of studies and on the review of the Commission's performance and may advise the Commission on any other matters relating to the purpose of the Commission.''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was, by a show of hands, agreed to: Yeas: 7; Nays: 1.
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was carried on division.
The question being put on Clause 19, as amended, it was carried on division.
Clauses 20 and 21 carried on division.
On Clause 22
Shaughnessy Cohen moved,--That Clause 22 be amended by striking out lines 42 and 43 on page 7 and substituting the following:
``tions of the Commission shall be audited by the Auditor General of Canada that such times as the Auditor General considers appropriate, and''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed on division.
The question being put on Clause 22, as amended, it was agreed to on division.
Clauses 23 to 25 carried on division.
Clauses 26 to 30 carried on division.
On new Clause 30.1
Diane Ablonczy moved,--That Bill C-106 be amended by adding after line 12, on page 9, the following new Clause:
``30.1 (1) On the expiration of five years after the coming into force of this Act, the provisions contained herein shall be referred for review to such committee of the House of Commons as may be designated or established for that purpose.
(2) The committee designated or established for the purposes of subsection (1) shall, as soon as practicable, undertake a comprehensive review of the provisions and operation of this Act and shall, within six months after the review is undertaken or within such further time as the House of Commons may authorize, submit a report to the House of Commons thereon including such recommendations pertaining to the continuation of those provisions and changes required therein as the committee may wish to make.''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was, by a show of hands, negatived: Yeas: 3; Nays: 7.
Clause 31 carried on division.
Clause 1 carried on division.
On the Preamble
Diane Ablonczy moved,--That Bill C-106, in the Preamble, be amended by replacing lines 1 and 2, on page 1, with the following:
``WHEREAS the Government of Canada has de-''
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was by a show of hands, negatived: Yeas: 2; Nays: 7.
The question being put on the Preamble, it was carried on division.
The Bill, as amended, carried on division.
Ordered,-That the Chair report the Bill, with amendments, to the House as the Thirteenth Report of the Committee.
At 4:35 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Richard Dupuis
Clerk of the Committee
Miriam Burke
Co-Clerk of the Committee