[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Wednesday, December 11, 1996
.1323 
[Translation]
The Chairman: I declare the meeting open. We will begin the clause-by-clause study of Bill C-32. I apologize for the delay. We had to file the amendments that had just come in.
Mr. Leroux.
Mr. Leroux (Richmond - Wolfe): Mr. Chairman, I had a question concerning procedure. Since we have new texts, could my assistant join me at the table?
The Chairman: Yes, that's fine.
Mr. Leroux: Secondly, I would ask, if possible, could we suspend the proceedings for Question Period? That would give our assistants time to work on the new contents, and it would allow us to move more quickly. Before rising for Question Period, we could deal with clause 3.
The Chairman: We would require unanimous consent to do so, since we already have a motion. If I understand correctly, we would discuss clause 3 until Question Period, at 2 o'clock, at which time we would adjourn until the end of Question Period. Afterwards, we would reconvene to study the rest.
Mr. Arseneault (Restigouche - Chaleur): You don't want to start with clause 18?
Mr. Leroux: It is 1:25. We can begin with clause 18, but we want to be able to study the new texts so as to be able to ask questions. That would not take too much time, and we could do that before leaving for Question Period. Therefore, when we return, we will be ready.
As you know, we received the texts at 12:30 or 12:35. We want to read them.
Some voices: Agreed.
The Chairman: Then that's how we will proceed.
.1325
Mr. Bélanger (Ottawa - Vanier): Mr. Chairman, yesterday, we debated a motion by Mr. Leroux who wanted to sit from 1 o'clock to 4 o'clock today. We all accepted that, and we have made arrangements, but now things are changing again. We have to make up our minds.
Mr. Leroux: It's not that we cannot make up our minds, but because we received amendments at 12:35 and we haven't yet had time to read them. We will be able to do that during Question Period. I'm ready to sit until 5 o'clock. It isn't a matter of slowing things down, but simply taking the time to read the new texts.
The Chairman: Agreed, we will sit until 5 o'clock. That's taken care of.
Will we do BQ-1? Is that what you have suggested?
Mr. Leroux: I suggest that we return to the clause that had been set aside and that we settle it.
The Chairman: You mean clause 1?
Mr. Leroux: Yes, the one that we had set aside.
The Chairman: Clause 1?
Mr. Leroux: That's it, clause 1, on page 3.
The Chairman: According to our agreement,
[English]
according to the unanimous consent of all members here, it was agreed when we met two meetings ago that we would reopen clause 1. On line 28 on page 4 there had been an amendment proposed by Mr. Leroux. It had been defeated, but we agreed by unanimous consent to revisit this and have a discussion on it.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux.
Mr. Leroux: We had agreed to return to this clause. I'm ready to discuss clause 1.
The Chairman: Mr. Bélanger.
Mr. Bélanger: Mr. Chairman, you will remember that I had mentioned that, personally, I would be more inclined to support the amendment proposed by my colleague if we were to apply to same test of reasonableness to the amendment that he suggested, that is, access via the licence held by a management company. In his amendment, he did not suggest the same test within a reasonable time, at a reasonable cost, requiring reasonable efforts.
With the permission of my colleague and the committee, I would be prepared to move an amendment, or perhaps even a motion to replace the one that my colleague put forward. I could read it.
The Chairman: Agreed. Once you have read it, we will decide if we withdraw his amendment, or if we move a subamendment.
Mr. Arseneault: But we've already voted on his amendment.
The Chairman: Yes we have already voted on his amendment. You are correct, Mr. Arseneault.
Mr. Bélanger: I would move, Mr. Chairman, that in paragraph 1(5), on page 3, we replace lines 32 to 35 by the following:
- ``commercially available'' means, in relation to a work or other subject matter
(b) for which a licence to reproduce, perform in public or communicate to the public by telecommunication is available from a collective society within a reasonable time and for a reasonable price and may be located with reasonable effort.
I don't know if I should do this, but I will read the English text.
[English]
Clause 1, page 4, lines 24 to 28 would read:
- ``commercially available'' means, in relation to a work or other subject matter
(b) for which a licence to reproduce, perform in public or communicate to the public by telecommunication is available from a collective society within a reasonable time and for a reasonable price and may be located with reasonable effort.
I'll make sure you get that.
.1330
[Translation]
The Chairman: We need copies for the committee members.
[English]
Mr. Bélanger: If I may explain, Mr. Chairman, without boxing myself in, I think it's important that I make a few remarks about the whole process we've been through as a committee.
I for one have been very much sensitized to the need to protect the creators, to protect the copyright, essentially.
[Translation]
This is their livelihood. We heard a great number of presentations and, unfortunately, I have heard no school, university or museum administrator, no professor or any representative or lobbyist from these organizations offer any part of their income or their livelihood. However, they discussed the livelihood of the authors.
If we must lean towards one side, to my mind, we should lean towards the authors who must be protected. I'm not saying that we must be completely on one side, which is what some would like. I wouldn't go that far, but we must not neglect the commercial value of copyright protection within a national economic strategy.
If I may, Mr. Chairman,
[English]
I've said this to others, and for those people I'm sorry to repeat myself, but when highways are developed in North America, someone made money developing those highways. For instance, I think the economy that progressed the best in North America is in the Detroit area, where people made vehicles for those highways and byways. As we enter into the era of electronic highways, I suspect the country that has the best protection for copyright will be able to draw, to encourage, to attract, more and more cultural and artistic creators to reside within its frontiers and take advantage of this protection.
For the United States of America, Hollywood is a major export market. It's a major commodity. Perhaps as we enter into the 21th century, and when we get into the next phase and we can perhaps protect even more in the data transmission world, we will perhaps have a head start if we've taken the other route of protecting the copyright. It's in that sense that I would encourage my colleagues to lend a little more - If we're wrong - it may be, but I don't think so - we will have a chance to correct it five years hence, when we review the act, or sooner. At this stage I would rather be wrong in that way than the other way.
I know a lot of people will be unhappy with this, but I firmly believe we do have a responsibility to protect copyright somewhat more than otherwise. That's why I'm prepared to move that amendment
[Translation]
for a large part, following fairly constructive comments that we heard from our colleague, and others who have come before us.
The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Bélanger. We will distribute the text.
.1335
[English]
Mr. Arseneault, have you any comments, or are you ready for the question?
Mr. Arseneault: I think I made my comments on this issue the other day. I'll let the members decide one way or the other.
The Chairman: All right.
[Translation]
Do you have any comments?
Mr. Leroux: I would like to make a comment. In the discussion that we had at the very beginning, I felt that my colleague opposite was trying to find some ground that would allow us to recognize what he has just said about the rights of authors and the authors, without restricting, as he said, the balance between those who must have access to works, and those who have rights who must, above all, have their say with respect to their work.
In the bill, there are not only collectives, but also instruments such as the Copyright Board, which plays an extremely important role in establishing a balance between the parties.
I would like to add that it's the first time that this has been expressed so clearly. We are approaching the year 2000, and modern technologies. The authors' market, and that of culture, are extremely important. We must think about the cultural industry in terms of the future, and ensure a balance between the real players, those who hold the rights as well as those who will have access to their works, and especially give them the possibility to speak to each other and arrive at agreements.
I am very much in favour of this new motion, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Therefore, if there are no other comments,
[English]
I think we'll carry on with a vote on the motion by Mr. Bélanger, which has been read and circulated.
Amendment agreed to
The Chairman: Clause 1 had been reserved, clause 1 as amended. We had adopted all the rest of clause 1.
Clause 1 as amended agreed to
[Translation]
On clause 18 - Copyright on sound recording
The Chairman: We will now move to clause 18. I believe there are a number of amendments to clause 18.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: I move, Mr. Chair, amendment G-21b.
.1340
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chairman, I would move government amendment 21c as circulated.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
The Chairman: I believe the next amendment is BQ-11, is that correct?
Mr. Leroux: We withdraw it, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: BQ-11 has been withdrawn. Do the committee members agree to withdraw it?
The Clerk: We don't need to withdraw it because it has never existed.
The Chairman: You are not moving it? Agreed.
We will move on to BQ-12.
Mr. Leroux: We are not moving it, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Amendment BQ-12 will not be moved.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: I would move government - Mr. Bélanger has an amendment.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Mr. Bélanger.
Mr. Bélanger: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move an amendment.
[English]
to clause 18, page 29, adding after line 24 the following:
- ``Acts Undertaken without Motive of Gain''
- Motive of Gain
- No action referred to in sections 29.4, 29.5, 30.2 or 30.2(1) may be carried out with the intention
of making a gain.
- Cost recovery
- An educational institution, library, archive or museum, or person acting under its authority does
not have a motive of gain where it or the person acting under its authority does anything referred
to in sections 29.4, 29.5, 30.2 or 30.2(1) and recovers no more than the costs, including
overhead costs, associated with doing that act.
For your information, the four sections referred to in this - Section 29.4 involves schools doing any act for the purpose of a test or an exam, and making copies of slides and transparencies, unless commercially available and all of that. Section 29.5 refers to performance of plays in schools. Section 30.2 refers to libraries making copies, and it would be essentially the document delivery systems. Section 30.2(1) is a new archival provision that prevents document delivery of unpublished works and archives.
What we're doing here is saying that if these institutions wish to use the exception to make a profit, they'll have to pay copyright over and above their costs, including their overhead costs. That's the essence of this amendment. I have it in French and English, Mr. Chairman.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Could you repeat that in French?
Mr. Bélanger: I move that clause 18 be amended as follows:
a) by adding the following on page 29, after line 33:
- Acts Undertaken without Motive of Gain
- Motive of Gain
- Cost recovery
- (2) an educational institution, library, archive or museum, or person acting under its authority
does not have a motive of gain where it or the person acting under its authority does anything
referred to in sections 29.4, 29.5, 30.2 and 30.2(1), and recovers no more than the costs,
including overhead costs.
- b) by taking out lines 34 to 38 on page 29.
The Chairman: I think we will have to wait for the text so that committee members can read it.
Mr. Arseneault: Perhaps we could continue and come back to it later.
The Chairman: Yes, we will let it stand. Is that alright with committee members?
Mr. Arseneault: We will call it MB-1?
The Chairman: No, MB-2.
Mr. Leroux: That amendment is in order.
Mr. Arseneault: You support the amendment? Very well, they agree.
The Chairman: That amendment can be called MB-2, Mauril Bélanger-2, because that is the second one. So we will come back to MB-2. Are you ready for the question?
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, we can look at the Secretary of State's motion. We will read the text. He has not arrived yet.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: I would move -
[Translation]
We will do that later.
[English]
The Chairman: So you're moving that we reserve MB-2.
Mr. Arseneault: Yes.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: We will find it a number at the same time.
[English]
The Chairman: We'll stay MB-2 until later.
Amendment allowed to stand
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chairman, I would move government amendment 22.
The Chairman: The question has been called on G-22.
[Translation]
Do you have any comments, Mr. Leroux?
Mr. Leroux: No.
[English]
Amendment agreed to
The Chairman: Are you ready to proceed with the next amendment?
Mr. Arseneault: The next one on my list is BQ-13.
The Chairman: No, I think two new ones have been inserted by the government.
Mr. Arseneault: I don't have them in front of me.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Have the new amendments been tabled?
[English]
The Chairman: There are two new amendments for the government, Mr. Arseneault.
Mr. Arseneault: What number did you give them?
The Chairman: We just received them this morning. We'll call them G-22a and G-22b, so that we don't change the sequence.
[Translation]
Look, we will change the number. We will take the number in the corner, 018-030.
Mr. Leroux: We don't have that.
The Chairman: We will wait a few minutes to settle this matter.
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, I suggest we suspend our sitting.
The Chairman: We will do so, because in any case -
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Are you saying 25a?
The Chairman: Just a minute.
Mr. Arseneault: I would so move.
[Translation]
We have it. It's 25a.
[English]
The Chairman: So that we don't mess up our sequence, the digits 018-030 appear on the side of the amendment at the left, so we'll call it 018-030. You will see these figures on the left of the amendment.
Mr. Bélanger: Is that 0.38?
The Chairman: That's .14a.
Mr. Bélanger: ``Medium that is appropriate for'' - Is that the one?
[Translation]
The Chairman: Yes, 14a.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: So 018-030.14a I would so move.
.1350
The Chairman: Maybe these books can be updated during the question period. It's pretty confusing right now.
Mr. Arseneault: Question.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Are you ready?
Mr. Leroux: I would like some clarification.
The Chairman: Mr. Bouchard, Mr. Richstone or Ms. Katz, could you please comment on 018-030.14b? Mr. Bouchard.
Mr. René Bouchard (Director, Copyright Policy and Economic Planning, Department of Canadian Heritage): It means it only applies to the educational institution itself, and not the campus or off campus.
[English]
The Chairman: Okay, I will call the question.
Amendment agreed to
[Translation]
The Chairman: It is now 1:55 p.m. We will therefore suspend and resume our work with amendment BQ-13.
Mr. Leroux: You can skip amendment BQ-13, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: So BQ-13 is withdrawn.
Mr. Leroux: And BQ-14 as well, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: So we will resume with G-22a.
Mr. Arseneault: I am attending Question Period. I have told the Minister that.
Mr. Leroux: I would like to go. I have a question to ask you.
Mr. Arseneault: Well, ask it here.
[English]
The Chairman: This meeting is adjourned until 3:15 p.m.
.1352
.1523
The Chairman: Members, Mr. Leroux has asked for a suspension of a few minutes to look at some of these amendments.
.1524
.1538
The Chairman: We will start the session again. I think we have reached amendment G-22A. I'll actually mention the code number as well, because some people don't have our reference. It's 018-030.30a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
The Chairman: The next amendment -
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: We are now at BQ-15.
The Chairman: Mr. Leroux, if my papers are in order, you have a number of amendments: BQ-15, 16, 17, 17a), 18, 19 and 20.
Mr. Leroux: I have found them. They are withdrawn, Mr. Chairman.
.1540
The Chairman: You are withdrawing all of them?
Mr. Leroux: All except BQ-17.
The Chairman: Amendment BQ-17 has number 018031.19B on it. I am saying that because the officials do not have their references.
Could you read it?
Mr. Leroux: I move that Bill C-32, in clause 18, be amended by replacing line 19 on page 31 with the following:
- commentary program, excluding documentaries, for the purposes of
Amendment agreed to
Mr. Leroux: I will not move BQ-19.
The Chairman: BQ-20?
Mr. Leroux: I will not move it.
The Chairman: We are now at G-23 which has the code 018-032.12a.
Mr. Arseneault: I move the amendment, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Are there any questions?
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
The Chairman: BQ-21 has code number 018032.13A.
Mr. Leroux: I will not move it.
The Chairman: BQ-22?
Mr. Leroux: I will not move it.
The Chairman: BQ-23 and BQ-24?
Mr. Leroux: I will not move them.
[English]
The Chairman: You're moving G-23A?
Mr. Arseneault: Yes.
The Chairman: That is reference 018-033.35a.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Fine.
[English]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
The Chairman: BQ-25?
Mr. Leroux: I will not move it.
[English]
Mr. Arsenault: I move amendment G-24.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
The Chairman: BQ-26, BQ-27 -
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Neither BQ-27 nor BQ-28 will be moved.
[English]
The Chairman: Next amendment, please.
Ms Phinney (Hamilton Mountain): I move R-1 as circulated.
The Chairman: R-1 is moved. It's amendment 8035.06A. I think the wording is in your books. Are there any questions or comments?
Mr. Bélanger: Roll call, please.
Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings]
.1545
Mr. Arsenault: Mr. Chair, with the help of the clerk at the table, we have a number of amendments that were tabled and are not in this package - I think they've been circulated - so I don't know what order you have them in.
The Clerk: They're in their appropriate section. We haven't arrived at them yet.
Mr. Arseneault: So G-25 is next on your list?
The Chairman: Yes.
Mr. Arseneault: Okay.
The Chairman: It's amendment number 018-035.24a.
Mr. Arseneault: I would so move.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Bélanger: I don't think this is in the package we have. You may want to call it G-25A. I believe the clerk has a copy. I'll introduce it.
The Chairman: Could you just hold it half a jiffy, please?
Mr. Bélanger: Perhaps we can just circulate it and that will be enough. I won't have to read it.
The Chairman: If you'll wait for a minute, Mr. Bélanger, we'll get the amendment distributed.
Mr. Bélanger: We'll call this one MB-3.
The Chairman: Would members prefer the amendment to be read? Is it clear to you in this form?
An hon. member: Yes.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Arseneault: I would move, Mr. Chairman, a package that you received today, number 018-035.40c. Is that all right with the clerk?
The Chairman: Yes. We'll now consider amendment 018-035.40c. You're moving it?
Mr. Arseneault: Yes.
[Translation]
In the French version, it is 018-035.38a.
.1550
[English]
The Chairman: The English version is 018-035.40c, the French version 018-035.38a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: I will not move BQ-30.
[English]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move 018-036.07b.
The Chairman: The French version is 018-036.07a.
The Clerk: They've made a change.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: It is a and b?
Mr. Arseneault: In English and in French, I believe.
[English]
The Chairman: Would members wait for a minute? The clerk notifies me there's been a change in this amendment, and we'll circulate the change so that we don't have to move a subamendment.
Ms Phinney: I move the amendment as circulated. It's important it go in as circulated, with the change.
The Chairman: So that there should be no misunderstandings, Ms Phinney has moved amendment 018-036.07b. The French version is 018-036.07a, with a substitution of paragraph 6. Correct? The members have that change.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: I will not move either BQ-31 nor BQ-32.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chair, I would move, for your records, 018-036.23a.
The Chairman: The French version is 018-036.21b.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move amendment R-2, as circulated.
The Chairman: Ms Phinney moves amendment R-2 as circulated, which is numbered 018-037.12a.
Mr. Arseneault: Question.
.1555
The Chairman: The question has been called. All in favour of R-2 as circulated? Contrary minded?
Mr. Arseneault: Nay.
Mr. Bélanger: Would you note that it's unanimous?
A voice: No, it's not.
[See Minutes of Proceedings]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move amendment R-3, as circulated.
The Chairman: Amendment R-3 has been moved. The reference is 018-037.12b. The question has been called.
Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
Mr. Bélanger: On clause 18 -
The Chairman: Could we do that last?
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chair, I would move 018-038.04b as circulated.
[Translation]
The Chairman: The French version is 018-038.06a.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Question.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Are there any questions or comments? You have a question, Mr. Leroux?
Mr. Leroux: Under proposed subsection (8), it says:
(8) This clause applies only if the company can get a licence through a management firm that would authorize it to reproduce a fixation or reproduction.
The Chairman: What part are you referring to, Mr. Leroux?
Mr. Leroux: Subsection (8) under the heading ``Waivers''. What is meant by the term ``possible''? Does it mean ``possible'' even if it does not lead to an agreement? What is the explanation for that?
Mr. Jeff Richstone (lawyer, Department of Canadian Heritage): Mr. Leroux, I presume that if the decision was available in that sense, there would be a licence that would allow such a thing. The English version says the same thing: ``where a licence is available''.
[English]
The Chairman: With all due respect, Mr. Richstone, I think Mr. Leroux has a point. If you look at the English, ``a licence is available''. In the French it says where it's possible to obtain a licence. I think
[Translation]
in the case where -
Mr. Richstone: The licence is available.
The Chairman: That is not the same.
Mr. Leroux: In that case, I think it would be more direct to say: ``where the company can obtain, through a management firm - ''
Mr. Richstone: Something more direct would be better. Perhaps ``can obtain'' instead of ``possible''.
Mr. Leroux: It would be fine if you insert: ``can be obtained'' in the French version.
.1600
Ms. Elizabeth Britt (lawyer, Department of Industry): Mr. Leroux, we could say:
(8) This clause applies only in cases where the company can obtain, through a management firm, a licence authorizing it to reproduce such a fixation or reproduction.
The Chairman: Could you repeat that, Ms. Britt.
Ms. Britt: ``This clause applies only in cases where - '' So you take out ``it is possible'' and replace it with ``the company can obtain. The rest stays the same.
The Chairman: In order to avoid any misunderstanding, subsection (8) will read as follows:
(8) This clause applies only in cases where the company can obtain, through a management firm, a licence authorizing -
Is everyone in agreement? Are there any other questions or comments?
Amendment agreed to
The Chairman: For clause 18, we still have an amendment that was moved by Mr. Bélanger this morning and that we could not deal with because there was other business. We had called it MB-2. Would you like to give some clarification, Mr. Bélanger?
Mr. Bélanger: I did so this morning, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Arseneault: We were waiting to hear whether the Bloc agreed with this or not.
The Chairman: Alright?
Mr. Leroux: We are ready for the question. We are against it, but we can vote on it.
The Chairman: Are there any other questions?
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Clause 18 as amended agreed to
[English]
On clause 19 - Right to remuneration
Ms Phinney: I move amendment 019-038.07a.
[Translation]
The Chairman: In French, it is 019-038.9a.
Mr. Leroux: Did you not start with BQ-33, 34 and 35?
The Chairman: This is before the BQs.
[English]
Ms Phinney: I move the amendment as amended.
The Chairman: No, Ms Phinney, I don't think that's the way it should go. I think the simplest thing would be to move this version of the amendment.
Mr. Arseneault: As circulated.
The Chairman: As circulated.
Ms Phinney: Okay. Then I move the amendment as circulated.
The Chairman: So we are talking about the amendment with the typos and the additions.
[Translation]
Is it clear? So it is amendment 019-038.07a in French.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
.1605
The Chairman: Let's move on to the next motion.
Mr. Leroux: We are withdrawing motions BQ-33, BQ-34, BQ-35 and BQ-36.
The Chairman: You will not be moving them.
[English]
Are there any further amendments?
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move amendment G-25a.
The Chairman: G-25a, reference number 019-41.30a.
[Translation]
In French, it is G-25a, 019-041.30a. Do you have any questions or comments?
[English]
Amendment agreed to
[Translation]
Clause 19 as amended agreed to
On clause 20
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman - [Inaudible - Editor].
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chairman, I would move G-25b, as circulated.
The Chairman: G-25b has been moved. The reference is 020-043.32a. In French,
[Translation]
it's 020-043.32a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Mr. Peric (Cambridge): Mr. Chairman, I'm moving G-25c.
The Chairman: G-25c has been moved. The reference is 020-45.44a.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: I am withdrawing motions BQ-37,BQ-39 and BQ-40.
The Chairman: Are we ready for the questions on the next amendment?
Mr. Leroux: Yes.
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Peric.
[English]
The Chairman: Do you have an amendment, Mr. Peric?
Mr. Peric: Yes, G-26.
The Chairman: G-26 has been moved. The reference is 020-48.06a.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Mr. Peric: I'm moving G-26a.
[Translation]
The Chairman: I am calling the question on amendment G-26a, which is 020-048.34a in English and 020-048.35a in French.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
.1610
[English]
Mr. Peric: I move G-26b.
[Translation]
The Chairman: I will now call the question called on amendment G-26B, which is 020-049.12b in the English version and 020-049.13b in the French version.
[English]
Amendment agreed to
Mr. Peric: Can I move G-26c?
The Chairman: Amendment G-26c has been moved, reference 020-049.18a.
[Translation]
It's 020-049.18a in French.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Mr. Peric: Can I move G-26d?
The Chairman: Amendment G-26d is moved as circulated, reference 020-049.29a.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: We moved amendment BQ-43, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: G-26d, is 020-049.36b in the French version.
Are you ready for the question, Mr. Leroux?
Mr. Leroux: Yes.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: We are withdrawing amendment BQ-44 and BQ-45.
[English]
Mr. Peric: I move G-26e.
The Chairman: Amendment G-26e as circulated has been moved, reference 020-051.11a.
[Translation]
In French, the amendment is number 020-051.09a.
Mr. Leroux: The reference numbers are not the same in French and English, but the wording is.
The Chairman: Just one moment, please. I need the exact reference so that those who draft our report to the House do not make any mistake. We need to have just one reference. According to my book, motion G-26c in English is number
[English]
020-051.11a, and my French version is 020-051.09a.
Mr. Arseneault: C'est exact.
The Chairman: Is everybody agreed? If everybody's agreed, I'll call the question.
Amendment agreed to
[Translation]
Clause 20 as amended agreed to
.1615
Clauses 21, 22 and 23 agreed to
On clause 24
Mr. Leroux: We are withdrawing motion BQ-46.
[English]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I would move amendment G-26. Mr. Chairman, I don't have this and I'd like a copy.
The Chairman: Of G-26f?
Ms Phinney: It's G-26h on mine.
The Chairman: I've got G-26f, Ms Phinney.
Ms Phinney: All right, I'll move amendment G-26f.
The Chairman: Moved is G-26f, which is reference 024-053-35a.
[Translation]
In French, it is 024-053.28a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: We are withdrawing motion BQ-47.
[English]
Clause 24 as amended agreed to
Clauses 25 and 26 agreed to
[Translation]
Clause 27 agreed to
On clause 28
Mr. Bélanger: Shouldn't we vote on motion G-26.1, which is 028-056.26a in English and 28-056.22a in French?
The Chairman: The reference numbers are not consistent. We agreed to vote on amendment 28-056.26a in English and 28-056.22a in French. Mr. Bélanger, since the text is so short, perhaps you could read it to us to avoid any misunderstanding when the report is being drafted.
[English]
Mr. Bélanger: It amends clause 28, page 57, replacing line 3 with the following:
- where they were made, of any used books, except text books of a scientific, technical or
scholarly nature for use by an educational institution in a course of instruction.
The Chairman: For the transcript, I suggest we use reference numbers 028-057.03a in English and 028-057.22a in French.
Mr. Bélanger: It is fine in French. That is what I suggest.
.1620
The Chairman: It is 028.057.22a.
Would you like us to read the French, Mr. Leroux?
Mr. Leroux: No, but G-26.1, in French, is 028.057.22a.
The Chairman: That's correct.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Clause 28 as amended agreed to
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chairman, since there are no amendments for clauses 29 to 39, I would move that they all be adopted en bloc.
Clauses 29 to 39 inclusive agreed to
On clause 40
Mr. Arseneault: I move amendment G-26g as circulated, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Amendment G-26g has been moved, reference 040-062.12a in English, and 040-062.12a in French.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Clause 40 as amended agreed to
Clause 41 agreed to
[English]
On clause 42
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move amendment G-26h as circulated.
The Chairman: Ms Phinney moves G-26h as circulated, reference 042-062.23a, and in French
[Translation]
042-062.24a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Clause 42 as amended agreed to
Clause 43 agreed to
[English]
On clause 44
Mr. Peric: I move amendment G-26i.
The Chairman: Amendment G-26i is moved by Mr. Peric. It's reference 044-063.07a, and same reference in French.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-48 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
Clause 44 as amended agreed to
[English]
On clause 45
Mr. O'Brien (London - Middlesex): Mr. Chairman, I move amendment G-26j as circulated.
The Chairman: Mr. O'Brien moves G-26j as circulated, reference 045-063.35a, and in French 045-063.28a.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-49 will not be moved.
[English]
Mr. O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, I move amendent G-27 as circulated.
.1625
The Chairman: Mr. O'Brien moves G-27, reference 045-064.42a. In French it's 045-064.29a.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-50 will not be moved. It is not withdrawn. It has not been moved.
[English]
Mr. Bélanger: I move amendment G-27a, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Mr. Bélanger moves amendment G-27a, reference 045-065.29a.
[Translation]
It is the same reference in French: 045-65.29a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-51 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Bélanger: I move amendment G-27b, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Amendment G-27b is moved by Mr. Bélanger. The reference in English is 045-066.29a and in French, 045-066-25a.
Mr. Leroux: I would like to move a subamendment, Mr. Chairman. I move that:
- clause, that thirty-three and one third per cent of the royalties set out, the second year, sixty-six
and two third per cent and pay one hundred per cent as of the third year, those percentages being
calcu-
- It is a matter of adding ``as of'' before the words ``the third year'', to ensure it will be the same
for the fourth and fifth years.
The Chairman: Yes, yes. I would also like to make sure it is consistent with the English.
The Clerk: But is the change required in the English version?
The Chairman: No, no, but we have to see whether it is consistent with the English text.
[English]
Mr. Richstone, these are important things. If you want to take a few more minutes, we'll take a few more minutes.
Mr. Richstone: Could you? I would be very grateful, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: I tell you what we'll do. If members agree, we'll stay this for a few minutes while you consult, and we'll go back to it before we adopt the clause.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: [Inaudible]
The Chairman: No, we will stand that.
Mr. Leroux: I would have liked that.
Mr. Arseneault: We will look at it at the end.
Mr. Leroux: I would just like to take 30 seconds or a minute.
The Chairman: Fine. You can take 30 seconds.
Mr. Leroux: I can explain everything.
.1628
.1631
[English]
The Chairman: We'll resume the sitting.
Mr. Richstone, have you an agreement on the wording?
Mr. Richstone: Mr. Chair, I think that the way it is drafted - It's clear from the existing wording that this is a transitional measure only. It starts off ``Notwithstanding the tariffs approved by the Board under subsection 68(3)''. So once you reach 100% in the third year, after that you automatically go in the fourth year to the régime général, to the general regime under 68(3), and that's 100%.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Do you agree, Mr. Leroux?
Mr. Leroux: Yes.
The Chairman: Thank you.
As agreed, the text reads exactly as it was in the original copy.
[English]
Subamendment negatived
The Chairman: The question is on amendment G-27b.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move G-27c as circulated.
The Chairman: Ms Phinney moves G-27c, reference 045-067.33a in English, in French 045-067.11a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move G-28 as circulated.
The Chairman: G-28 is moved, reference 045-068.07a,
[Translation]
and in French, 045-068.09a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-52 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move G-28A as circulated.
The Chairman: Ms Phinney moves G-28A, reference 045-068.31a; the French reference is 045-068.30a.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Mr. Peric: Mr. Chairman, I move amendment G-29.
The Chairman: Mr. Peric moves G-29, reference 045-068.35a.
Mr. Arseneault: Are there some changes that have been deposited with the table?
The Chairman: Not that I've seen, Mr. Arsenault.
Mr. Arseneault: Not on this one? Okay, that's good.
The Chairman: The French reference for G-29 is 045-068.34a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Peric: I move G-30.
The Chairman: Mr. Peric moves G-30, reference 045-069.01a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
The Chairman: Mr. O'Brien moves G-30a. The reference in both languages is 045-069.07a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
.1625
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-53 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Clause 45 as amended agreed to
On clause 46
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, neighbouring rights are there.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: I would move amendments G-31, 31A, 32, 33, 34 and 35.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Mr. Arseneault moves amendment G-31, 31A, 32, 33, 34 and 35.
[English]
For purposes of the record, I'm going to quote the references to the amendments: 046-070.03a in both languages;
[Translation]
in English 046-070.32a; in French 046-070.29a; 046-071.16a in both languages; in English 046-071.38b and in French 046-071.36b; 046-071.05a in both languages; in English 046-072.09a and in French 046-072.11a.
[English]
Do you want to move to take the vote on all the amendments together?
Mr. Arseneault: Yes.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Before moving on to the question on amendment G-35, the last, I would like to ask a question:
- a right provided for under clauses 3, 15, 18 or 21 against anyone who has paid or who offers to
pay -
- What is meant by ``offers to pay''?
Mr. Bouchard: On what exactly?
Mr. Leroux: ``Paid or offers to pay''.
The Chairman: ``Offered''.
Mr. Leroux: ``Or offered''. What difference does it make?
The Chairman: It is the same thing.
Mr. Bélanger: Yes, it takes the same auxiliary verb.
Mr. Leroux: Yes, but what exactly does "offered to pay" mean?
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Richstone, I think what Mr. Leroux wants to know is -
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: If he offered to pay, but has not paid, what happens?
[English]
The Chairman: He's not questioning the wording. He's questioning the meaning of what ou offert de payer means, in substance.
[Translation]
Mr. Richstone: That provision is in the current legislation. I believe the offer to pay is a consignment. It is what is referred to as consignment in the Quebec Code of civil procedure. Either there was indeed a payment, or there was a tender of payment. It is a tender of payment under the Quebec law.
Mr. Leroux: Fine. I am ready to vote.
[English]
Amendments G-31 to G-35 inclusive agreed to
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, amendments BQ-54 and BQ-55 will not be moved.
Mr. Bélanger: Mr. Chairman, I move amendment G-36.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Bélanger is proposing G-36. The English reference is 046-72.18a, and the French reference is 046-072.17a.
Mr. Arseneault: Question.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-56 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move R-4 as circulated.
The Chairman: Ms Phinney moves R-4, reference 046-073.22A,
[Translation]
and in French, 046-07317A.
[English]
Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Clause 46 as amended agreed to
.1640
Clause 47 agreed to
On clause 48
The Chairman: I will now call clause 48.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-57 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I move G-37, as circulated.
The Chairman: Ms Phinney moves G-37, reference number 048-073.44a.
[Translation]
The reference in French is 048-073-.39a.
[English]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
Clause 48 as amended agreed to
[English]
Clause 49 agreed to
[Translation]
Mr. Arseneault: Amendment BQ-58 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: I then move on to clause 49.1.
The Clerk: Clause 49.1 is a new clause. We do not need to vote on it.
The Chairman: Are you sure?
The Clerk: Yes.
Mr. Leroux: It is the introduction of a new clause.
Mr. Arseneault: Oh, you do not need to vote.
The Clerk: No.
[English]
On clause 50
An hon. member: It's better to have too many votes than not enough.
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I propose amendment G-37a, as circulated.
The Chairman: Ms Phinney proposes G-37a, reference number 050-074.28a.
[Translation]
In French, it is 050-074.28a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Mr. Peric: I move amendment G-38.
The Chairman: Mr. Peric moves G-38, référence, in English, 050-075.29a,
[Translation]
in French, 050-075.27a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-59 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Arseneault: Amendment G-38a will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Mr. Peric: I move G-38b.
The Chairman: Mr. Peric moves G-38b. The reference in the English text is 050-077.04a.
[Translation]
In the French text, it is 050-077.05a.
[English]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
The Chairman: Mr. Leroux, you have amendments BQ-60 and BQ-61?
Mr. Leroux: Yes.
Amendment BQ-60 will not be moved. There is something missing between the two.
The Clerk: That would require a new motion. There is a correction we will hand out immediately.
The Chairman: We will have to wait until -
The Clerk: Fine.
[English]
The Chairman: Okay, go ahead, Mr. Arseneault.
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chair, before we move on, there is an amendment that we tabled, 050-078.06b, but I'm not sure of the order that it's in.
The Chairman: That's correct. We're there now, Mr. Arseneault. There's been a change in the wording, which we're circulating now.
Mr. Arseneault: Okay, and did Mr. Peric move that?
The Chairman: No, nobody has moved it, Mr. Arseneault.
Mr. Arseneault: Okay.
Mr. Peric: I'll move it.
The Chairman: Mr. Peric moves 050-078.06b.
[Translation]
In French, it is 050-078.04b.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chair, the numbers are the same numbers as the original, and I think it should be noted that it's the one that has just been circulated.
.1645
[Translation]
Mr. Bélanger: And in French?
Mr. Leroux: You do not have them in French?
Mr. Bélanger: You do not have 050-078.04b in French?
Mr. Leroux: Yes, that's right. But that is the one that was deleted.
Mr. Arseneault: It is the same number, but like that.
Mr. Leroux: That is how you want it.
The Chairman: Are we ready for the question on amendment 050-78.6b, on the latest version of the amendment that was circulated?
[English]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Are there amendments between BQ-61 and BQ-62?
The Chairman: No.
Mr. Leroux: So I can say that BQ-61 and BQ-62 will not be moved.
[English]
Ms Phinney: I propose amendment G-38c as circulated.
The Chairman: Ms Phinney proposes G-38c as circulated. The reference in English is 050-078.26a.
[Translation]
In French, it is 50-078.24a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Just a moment, it will not be long. Again, there is no amendment between the two. So BQ-63 and BQ-64 will not be moved.
[English]
Mr. O'Brien: Mr. Chair, I move amendment G-38d.
The Chairman: Mr. O'Brien moves amendment G-38d, with the English reference 050-080.09a, and the same reference in French.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Amendment BQ-65 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Go ahead, Pat.
Mr. O'Brien: I move amendment G-38e, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Mr. O'Brien moves G-38e, reference 050-081.32a.
[Translation]
The French reference is 050-081.23a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendments BQ-66, BQ-67 and BQ-68 will not be moved.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. O'Brien moves amendment G-39, reference number 050-084.02a, in both languages.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: So, we're talking about 050-084 - Where is the amendment on subsection (9)?
The Chairman: It is G-39, I think. It was just passed.
Mr. Leroux: Yes, we just passed G-39. But the government had a subamendment to our amendment BQ-69, which I do not see.
The Chairman: It was just passed.
Mr. Leroux: It is not G-39:
- responsabilités ou fonctions découlant des articles 82, 84
(9) In exercising its power under -
It is on page 84.
The Chairman: Look, before there is too much confusion, could we -
So it is amendment G-40.
Mr. Leroux: It is the next amendment. Fine. Amendment BQ-69 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. O'Brien: I move amendment G-40, Mr. Chair.
The Chairman: Just one minute, Mr. O'Brien.
.1650
Mr. O'Brien: Okay, I move amendment G-40 now, Mr. Chair.
The Chairman: Amendment G-40 has been moved. The reference number in English is 050-084.14a and
[Translation]
050-084.13a in French.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: Amendments BQ-70 and BQ-71 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I propose G-40a as circulated.
The Chairman: G-40a has been moved by Ms Phinney. The English reference is 050-088.24b and the French reference is the same.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, I propose G-40b as circulated.
The Chairman: G-40b has been moved. The reference number is 050-089.01a,
[Translation]
same reference in French.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Leroux: BQ-72 will not be moved, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to make an amendment to clause 53 in English and in French.
The Chairman: We are on clause 50, Mr. Leroux.
Mr. Leroux: Wait a minute. Yes, that's right.
Clause 50 as amended agreed to
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, in the bill, instead of a mandatory transmission system, we would have preferred arbitration.
[English]
Clauses 51 and 52 agreed to
[Translation]
On clause 53
Mr. Leroux: I have an amendment, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: You have an amendment to clause 53.
Mr. Leroux: In French, it is on page 19. The amendment should be added after line 14:
- under subsection 68(3), as enacted by section 45 of this Act, and under paragraph 70.15(1)
enacted par section 46 of this Act.
We will make photocopies. I have the motion in English and in French.
Mr. Arseneault: Could you give us an explanation, Mr. Leroux?
The Chairman: Would members of the committee and Mr. Leroux agree to stand clause 53 until we get the photocopies? We could move on to 54 and come back to 53.
Mr. Leroux: If you want the explanations, we can talk about them. It will come into effect at the same time as the private copies, but with regards to neighbouring rights, it says that their rate has to be tabled by March 31. If the bill is passed in late February or in March, they will not have time to work on their rates and table them. So they will lose an entire year because of that.
Perhaps Mr. Bouchard could tell us more about the delays that might cause. If the bill is passed too close to March 31, it may be tight and they may not be able to table their rate. Already, for private copies, it is expected to come into effect -
Mr. Bouchard: Mr. Chairman, I would just like to make a clarification. We are indeed making a distinction between the two systems, the one for private copies and the ones for neighbouring rights. The neighbouring rights system was set up to be similar to the retransmission system, which has a set date for the rates to come into effect, whereas for the private copies, they were given more time or flexibility because their system is much more burdensome and involves several levels of stakeholders. That is why we made the time frame more flexible.
Mr. Richstone: As you know, Mr. Leroux, the neighbouring rights system was incorporated into the existing system, which is the SOCAN. We therefore thought it would be easier to implement than other newer systems. Clause 53 is based on a section of the Copyright Act. In fact, it is an amending bill. In 1990, the retransmission system was set up, which was also a new system.
Any time a legislator implements a new system of collective management, there has to be this type of provision, because it takes the Copyright Board a certain amount of time to restructure based on its new powers.
Obviously, the same applies to private copies. There again, it is a new system and we provided for a certain amount of time and therefore drafted the same type of provision. The neighbouring rights system is already in place. That is why we did not include the same provision.
Mr. Leroux: If a bill were adopted too late, let's say towards March, what would happen? Would they lose a year? They have to set rates by March 31 of the preceding year. If the bill is tabled too close to that date and they don't have time to establish rates or to prepare, they will lose another year. That could be extremely damaging. Isn't there some kind of transition measure -
Mr. Richstone: Obviously, we hoped the bill would be passed early enough for the neighbouring rights system to become part of the SOCAN collective management approach. That's what we had planned.
Mr. Leroux: Without applying it to this bill, could there be a way of adopting some kind of transition amendment allowing the new system to be implemented independently of the date on which the bill is passed? This would mean that rates would not have to be submitted by March 31 of the preceding year. Can't we come up with some measure that would make it possible for the system to be implemented without penalizing anyone? Otherwise, we'll be penalizing them for an entire year. That's what I'm trying to work out. We are striving for equitable application, and for the system to work smoothly. Otherwise, the system won't really be in place before March 31 of the following year.
.1700
Can't we put this on hold for a bit? Can't they work on it and come back with something?
Mr. Arseneault: I have discussed the issue and I don't think we can come up with a compromise at this time.
Mr. Leroux: Could the amendment I have moved serve?
The Chairman: We are having group discussions here. We have to be more organized about this.
Mr. Leroux: Does everyone have the amendment?
The Chairman: Yes, I think they do.
Mr. Leroux: The amendment I have moved seems to deal with the problem without undermining or having any impact on the bill. I would like members to read it carefully, and then I would like the question put, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Fine.
[English]
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chair, I would ask that the vote on clause 53 be deferred until the end, after clause 63, just to give us time.
[Translation]
I don't think we can support your amendment, but we'll take the time to think about it.
The Chairman: We have a motion from Mr. Arseneault: that discussion on Mr. Leroux's amendment be deferred and that clause 53 be deferred until the end of today's meeting.
[English]
Is everybody in favour of this?
Amendment allowed to stand
Clause 53 allowed to stand
Clause 54 agreed to
The Chairman: I will now call proposed clause 54.1.
Mr. Peric: I move amendment G-40c.
The Chairman: Mr. Peric moves amendment G-40c on proposed clause 54.1, reference 54-090.26a,
[Translation]
French reference 054-090.24a.
Clause 54.1 agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
The Chairman: I call clause 55.
Mr. Peric: I move amendment G-41.
The Chairman: Mr. Peric moves amendment G-41, English reference 055-090.47a,
[Translation]
French reference, 55.091.02a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Clause 55 as amended agreed to
.1705
Clauses 56 to 58 inclusive agreed to
The Chairman: I now call proposed clause 58.1.
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chair, I would move amendment G-41a as circulated.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Mr. Arseneault moves amendment G-41a, the French reference 058-091.17a.
[English]
English version 058-091.15a.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chair, I would move that we adopt clauses 59, 60, and 61.
The Chairman: Just a minute. We have to move clause 58.1 as amended, Mr. Arseneault.
Mr. Arseneault: Oh, excuse me. I'm getting too anxious.
The Chairman: You're going to get me to miss one.
I will now call clause 58.1 as amended.
Clause 58.1 as amended agreed to
The Chairman: Mr. Arseneault moves the adoption of clauses 59, 60, and 61 in one motion.
Clauses 59 to 61 inclusive agreed to
The Chairman: I will now call clause 62.
Mr. Arseneault: I move amendment G-42 as circulated.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Amendment G-42 has been moved.
[English]
English reference 062-091.31a, French reference 62-091.33a.
[Translation]
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
Clause 62 as amended agreed to
[English]
On clause 63
Mr. Arseneault: I move amendment G-43 as circulated.
The Chairman: Amendment G-43 has been moved by Mr. Arseneault, reference 063-093.05a.
[Translation]
The French reference is the same.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
[English]
Clause 63 as amended agreed to
We will now turn back to clause 53.
[Translation]
Mr. Arseneault.
Mr. Leroux: Hold on a moment. I have a motion.
The Chairman: I'm leaving for just a few moments. Please don't leave your chairs.
.1709
.1725
[English]
The Chairman: We resume the meeting.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, I would like to request unanimous consent to withdraw my first motion.
The Chairman: Is there unanimous consent?
Mr. Leroux: Would you like me to read the motion?
The Chairman: Please do.
Mr. Leroux: I move that Bill C-32 be amended in clause 53, page 90, by adding immediately after line 20 the following:
- ``53.1 Notwithstanding subsection 67.1(2) and section 70.13, the date for the filing of the first
proposed tariffs under those sections shall be on or before the September 1 of the year of the
coming into force of this section.
The Chairman: Do members want photocopies before continuing? Are you satisfied with the explanation you have had about this amendment?
[English]
Amendment agreed to
[Translation]
Clause 53 as amended agreed to
The Chairman: Mr. Bélanger.
Mr. Bélanger: I would like to request that the committee give its unanimous consent to revert to clause 10 of the bill, which deals with photographers. I would like to move an amendment.
The Chairman: Is there unanimous consent?
Hon. members: Agreed.
[English]
Mr. Bélanger: There's a motion being circulated, and it is to amend lines 39 and 40 on page 13 with what is being distributed. It's essentially recognizing that the copyright rests with the first owner, even when that first owner is the party who ordered, as long as the payment has been made by the one who took the photograph.
This was one of the options presented to us. It was the least favoured option; I'm mindful of that. However, it perhaps will fill a bit of a void and help clarify their status as artists, or creators, if you prefer.
[Translation]
I think the motion is clear enough.
[English]
The Chairman: A motion has been moved by Mr. Bélanger. The reference is 10-013.39a in English,
[Translation]
in French 10-013.38a.
[English]
Mr. Bélanger: Otherwise known as MB-4.
Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
The Chairman: Shall the title carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall the bill as amended carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall the committee order a reprint for use at report stage?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall I report the bill to the House?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, before we conclude, I would like to congratulate these officials and thank them for their very hard work. They seem a little pale - they must have worked for hours. I would also like to thank the Library of Parliament researchers for their support and for their truly excellent work.
.1730
I would also like to thank all those who provided support for the committee, the officials here today, and obviously committee members and their staff. We have been putting in some very hard, in-depth work on this bill for some time now.
We wanted to achieve legislation that would help the people and organizations it affects, authors and users. I would like to thank everyone for their very hard work. The winners are those affected by this bill. Thank you.
[English]
Mr. Bélanger: Mr. Chairman, I'd like also to say something, if the committee members will allow me, for a little bit of levity. Earlier today, because of a conversation we had a while back, a colleague, Janko, gave me this little thing here, a Croatian cravat and an explanation of the origin of the word ``cravat'', which is Croatian.
You may remember we had a few tense moments and a few delightful moments in our committee, and one of them was when Janko questioned one of our witnesses. If you'll recall, Madame Marie-Denise Pelletier and Janko - Well, you all remember what it was. So I have a little gift for Janko, if you wouldn't mind.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
Mr. Arseneault: You're not allowed to copy that, now.
The Chairman: Before we adjourn, I'd like to reiterate the words of our colleague, Mr. Leroux.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux has expressed our thoughts on the work carried out by departmental officials and everyone else involved, particularly the researchers, who did an excellent job, as did Ms Hamilton and Mr. Norman, who provided support throughout the complex process. I would also like to thank all members of the public,
[English]
the members of the public who are here. It takes a lot of patience. Half the time you don't even know what these amendments are, because you don't have them in your hands. It takes a lot of patience and a lot of commitment.
I know many of you want to see the bill the way you wanted it to be. That's the way life goes. We have to find a balance on one side or another. We've done the best we could with something that is complex, complicated and also very polarized. It sometimes divides people, but we had to find the best balance we could and be as committed as we could be, and I think all of us are.
So I'd like to especially thank my colleagues here on both sides of the House, who have done a remarkable job and have been very faithful to the meetings.
[Translation]
Together, we have taken a major step forward. Thank you all.
[English]
Mr. Bélanger: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms Phinney: I just want to say something. Everybody else has been thanked here, and I would like to thank the chairman.
You've done a very good job of bringing us all together.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear!
The Chairman: Thank you.
The meeting is adjourned.