[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Thursday, May 9, 1996
.1105 
[Translation]
The Chairman: This meeting is called to order. We have two hours to complete our work. We will spend one hour on the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation and an hour on the Canadian Museum of Nature. I would ask that you limit your statement to 20 minutes
[English]
for your opening speeches to allow the rest of the time for questions for the members, if that's possible.
I'd like to introduce our honoured guests: Mrs. Adrienne Clarkson, chairwoman of the board of trustees, who needs no further introduction since she's so well known to all Canadians; Mr. George MacDonald, president and chief executive officer and executive director of the Museum of Civilization; Mr. Joe Geurts, chief operating officer and senior vice-president; Ms Sylvie Morel, director general of exhibitions and programmes; and Mr. Victor Suthren, director general of the Canadian War Museum.
Mrs. Clarkson, the floor is yours.
[Translation]
Ms Adrienne Clarkson (Chairwoman of the Board of Trustees, Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On behalf of the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation, we would like to thank you for inviting us to speak to your committee about our accomplishments.
I am accompanied by certain members of our board who live here in the National Capital Region, including Mr. Pierre Dufour. We have already introduced the other members of our executive to you.
I was appointed as Chairwoman six months ago and I'm delighted to be associated to such a beautiful and vital institution, from its architectural perspective and from the perspective of the world of the arts.
As you know, I spent my working life as a maker of programs for the CBC, as an Agent General for Ontario and as a President and Publisher at the Canadian publisher McClelland & Stewart promoting Canadian culture to Canadians and the world.
I continue to travel for pleasure and for business, and every time I go somewhere, I visit the museums. Now I can see the tremendous influence that our Canadian Museum of Civilization has had on the entire world and on the world of museums.
I believe that becoming the Chairwoman of the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation - a Corporation whose mandate is to explain and to represent the history of Canada - , at this time of my life, gives me another chance to contribute to the present and the future of Canada.
As a Canadian born outside of Canada, a Canadian by choice, I would like to begin by saying that I believe that this Canada - which took me and my family in as refugees during the war and lodged us at 247 Sussex Drive, which was known as Sussex Street at that time, almost right across from the door of the Canadian War Museum - is a country which, according to my experience in life, is worth maintaining with its common law, parliamentary democracy and bilingualism.
I have spent my whole adult life working hard to contribute to the Canadian way of doing things. But we all have to keep working to keep our country working the way it should be.
It is critical at every period but particularly now, to remember our history, our real history, remember the people in it and the events in it, value our institutions and have a full awareness of the kind of country we are.
The Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation has a crucial role to play in this. The Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation is a crown corporation established by the Museums Act which came into force on July 1st, 1990.
The Corporation is responsible for the management of Canada's national museum of human history, the Canadian Museum of Civilization, and its affiliate, the national museum of military history, the Canadian War Museum.
.1110
Bill C-65, which took effect in November 1995, reduced our Board of Trustees from 14 to 11 members. This Board represents the diversity of Canada with its members coming from different cultural backgrounds and different regions, from British Columbia to Newfoundland.
It is essential that this range of expressions and skills be brought to bear on an institution as vital to the identity of our nation as is our Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation.
I'd like to briefly recall our mandate in the Museums Act. The Act begins with the following statement:
3. It is declared that the heritage of Canada and all its people is an important part of the world heritage and must be preserved for present and future generations and that each museum established by this Act;
a) plays an essential role, individually and together with other museums and like institutions, preserving and promoting the heritage of Canada and all its people throughout Canada and abroad and in contributing to the collective memory and sense of identity of all Canadians;
b) is a source of inspiration, research, learning and entertainment that belongs to all Canadians and provides, in both official languages, a service that is essential to Canadian culture and available to all.
More specifically, the Act states that:
8. The purpose of the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation is to increase, throughout Canada and internationally, interest in, knowledge and critical understanding of and appreciation and respect for human cultural achievements and human behaviour by establishing, maintaining and developing for research and posterity a collection of objects of historical or cultural interest, with special but not exclusive reference to Canada, and by demonstrating those achievements and behaviour, the knowledge derived from them and the understanding they represent.
[English]
So the strategic issues we are addressing are museological excellence and outreach, shared understanding of Canadian identity and history, intercultural understanding and dialogue, and, of course, financial and operational viability. The board and management of the corporation are completely devoted to fulfil the mandate of the corporation and to address these issues, putting special emphasis on the promotion of Canadian identity and unity.
In order to manifest to Canadians the history of their country in a dynamic way, our corporation uses traditional and non-traditional methods. Dr. MacDonald is going to elaborate on non-traditional methods that will give us the dimension André Malraux called ``the museum without walls'', le musée imaginaire, talking about imagination in its newest and most leading-edge sense of today.
I want to draw your attention to the traditional ones and the present. Traditional methods are exhibitions, either permanent, temporary or travelling, and they are programs supported by research, including publishing and collections.
At the Canadian Museum of Civilization, the architecture and layout of our magnificent building is like an organogram of our geography, of our history, of our population, in a multi-layered fashion. The unfinished Canada Hall is devoted to the discovery and the settlement of Canada. The Grand Hall, which echoes the vast spaces of our land mass, focuses on the culture, lifestyle and history of our native peoples of Canada's Pacific coast. The Children's Museum, through its activities for young people, promotes intercultural understanding. So it's a twofold, two-level activity.
The planned First Peoples Hall will introduce us to the history and cultures of the first inhabitants of Canada. The Arts and Traditions Hall presents exhibitions on specific aspects of Canadian cultural and artistic expressions. The Indian and Inuit Art Gallery presents works by contemporary native and Inuit artists. The Special Exhibitions Hall is devoted to a large range of temporary exhibitions on a wide range of subjects from all over the world. Since the opening of the new Canadian Museum of Civilization in 1989, thirty special exhibits have been presented in this hall.
.1115
The Canadian War Museum, with its new galleries on an intimate scale, the Korean War Gallery and the Hall of Heroes, its victory exhibition and its nearly completed peacekeeping gallery, which we will be opening in June, as well as its participation in the celebrations of the end of the Second World War and the Louisburg summer of 1995 re-enactment, is now in a better position to give recognition of, and to develop pride in, the roles Canadians have played in fighting for freedom and in helping to keep peace. It shows an important aspect of our national character, development and commitment.
During 1994 and 1995 alone, the Canadian Museum of Civilization presented a staggering variety of exhibitions, fourteen considerable temporary exhibits, a reflection of our enormously varied nature as a country that welcomes diversity.
All of these exhibitions were very popular, but some should be singled out, such as: ``Opus: The Making of Musical Instruments in Canada'', which attracted rave reviews in Canada and abroad; ``Souvenirs of Canada'', which is still on; ``Isumavut: The Artistic Expression of Nine Cape Dorset Women''; ``Living in Canada in the Time of Champlain'', to be seen until September 1996; ``Nineteenth-Century Pottery and Porcelain in Canada'', showing until early January 1997; ``From Cradle to Grave: Objects of Everday Life'' and ``Threads of the Land: Clothing Traditions from Three Indigenous Cultures'', still showing until the fall of 1997.
From August to the end of October 1995, the Canadian Museum of Civilization presented the immensely popular and spectacular exhibition, ``Homage to Nature: The Landscape Kimonos, by Itchiku Kubota. Its featured exhibitions of the moment are ``Les paradis du monde: Quebec Folk Art''; ``Imperial Austria: Treasures of Art'' and ``The Doukhobours: Spirit Wrestlers''.
The corporation also shares its knowledge by putting some of its shows on the road. Some nineteen exhibits, from either the Canadian Museum of Civilization, including the Children's Museum and the National Postal Museum, or the Canadian War Museum, were presented in some40 locations across Canada, U.S.A., and England in 1994, while 21 went to 43 cities in 1995-96.
Currently touring, for your information, although some of you probably know this from places you are from, are, ``The Inuit and Diamond Jenness'', presently at the Restigouche Gallery in Campbellton, New Brunswick; ``Places of Power: Objects of Veneration'', at the Musée amérindien de Pointe Bleue in Quebec; ``Threads of the Land - Inuit'', at the Nunatta Sunakkutaangit Community Museum in Iqaluit, Northwest Territories; ``Siqiniq: Under the Same Sun'', at the Cleveland Children's Museum in Ohio; and ``The Magical School Bus Inside the Earth'', at the Denver Children's Museum in Colorado.
[Translation]
Another method of outreach - which has a lot of popular appeal - is the re-enactment of historical events. The Canadian War Museum's participation to the D-Day celebrations, in summer 1994, and the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the end of the Second World War as well as the re-enactment to mark the 250th anniversary of the siege of Louisbourg in summer 1995 must be commended.
Our researchers are working with two goals in mind: promoting intercultural understanding and fostering a sense of Canadian identity. Some of them are currently conducting research on: religious iconography among Canadians of Slavic origin; Canadian artists of Arabic origin; a book to be entitled Canada, pays de tous nos rêves, Canadian artists of Italian and Portuguese origin; and persistence and changes in the Sino-Canadian traditions.
.1120
The 1994-1995 Annual Report gives you an idea of the type of publications produced. Through these publications, the Corporation pursues its goal of museological excellence and dissemination of knowledge.
The Canadian Museum of Civilization regular programming continues to feature Cultures Canada, See and Hear the World, and all kinds of demonstrations and performances highlighting the diversity of the Canadian heritage.
The Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation signed a Memoranda of Cooperation and Understanding with other institutions which share its objectives. This is done in order to explore means to cooperate, to discuss and to examine the possibilities and mutual benefits related to curatorial, conservation, public programming and other museum activities.
The main objective is to see how joint ventures can benefit both institutions while benefitting the people of Canada.
[English]
So memoranda have been signed with institutions from all across Canada and abroad, institutions as varied as, in British Columbia, the Vancouver Museum and the Vancouver Maritime Museum; the Glenbow Museum and the Museum of the Regiments from Alberta; the Ukrainian Museum of Canada and the Saskatchewan Indian Federated College in Saskatchewan; from Ontario, the Bruce County Museum, the historic naval and military establishments, Huronia National Parks, Carleton University, the Office of the Secretary to the Governor General and the Ski Museum; and from Quebec, Musée David M. Stewart, Musée du Séminaire de Québec, and Musée de la civilisation in Quebec; the New Brunswick Museum, the Army Museum, the Halifax Citadel and the Newfoundland Museum; and from France, l'Institut du Monde Arabe, located in Paris.
This gives you, I hope, a good idea of what the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation is doing to fulfil its mandate. The corporation is doing this with some success - and I think we feel very proud about this - attracting 1,443,197 visitors in 1994-95, which rose to 1,536,621 visitors in 1995-96. This is without mentioning the increase in on-line visitation to our World Wide Web site to roughly 2,000 accesses a day. But we do plan even more.
Dr. MacDonald will now elaborate on this.
Thank you very much.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Ms Clarkson, for your very comprehensive overview, presented as usual in your very articulate manner.
Dr. MacDonald, it's nearly 11:25 a.m. I would ask you to summarize your presentation to allow time for members to ask questions, given that we only have one hour altogether.
Thank you.
[Translation]
Mr. George F. MacDonald (President and CEO and Executive Director, Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ladies and gentlemen, members of the committee, the two museums managed by the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation, the Canadian Museum of Civilization and its affiliate, the Canadian War Museum, are responsible to present and interpret the human history of Canada.
[English]
Our job in depicting the history of Canada and of the various peoples who have had a hand in creating Canada is to show that the story of Canada comprises many stories, which are part of a greater whole. We're the only institution in the country that looks at the entire history of this nation.
The destinies of the various ethnic groups living here, be it francophone, anglophone, autochton or allophone, have been in the past, and remain, intimately intertwined. It is this interplay of those stories and of those diverse ethnicities that creates Canadian culture and defines Canadian identity.
As mentioned by Ms Clarkson, the board and management of the corporation are fully devoted to fulfil the mandate of the corporation and to address the four identified strategic issues she noted earlier, putting special emphasis on the promotion of Canadian identity and unity.
[Translation]
One of the means to realize this, for the Corporation, it to reach out to all Canadian in order to share its wealth of knowledge about our Canadian heritage.
.1125
For doing so, we have to continue to use traditional methods as well as to increase our use of non-traditional ones which means new technologies in order to widen our audiences living outside the National Capital Region.
[English]
I will skip over to some of the non-traditional aspects of what we are doing, since Ms Clarkson has covered most of the traditional areas. I will just say before that, however, that we have undertaken to complete the permanent exhibitions of the museum. I'm not sure if you're aware, but since opening, 120,000 square feet of exhibition space was never financed through appropriations.
Appropriations were to have come in three sectors. The building was one, half of the exhibits was another, and the third, the other half of the exhibition space to be filled, was never granted by Treasury Board as an allotment to the museum for the completion of those exhibits.
So we have financed that as much as possible through the reallocation of internal resources. A preview of the new First Peoples Hall will be presented in June, and another 35,000 square feet of space that has never previously been seen by the public will open at that time.
[Translation]
At the Canadian War Museum, exhibition spaces also need to be completed in order to show the whole spectrum of Canadian military history. There too re-allocation of internal resources and fund raising allowed for the completion of the Hall of Canadian Heroes last summer, and will allow the opening of the Peacekeeping Gallery - dedicated to the peacekeeping role of Canada in the world - on June 10th, 1996.
[English]
We're also developing outreach projects, both long- and short-term, through non-traditional methods, primarily electronic technologies. We have developed a reputation as a high-tech museum since our opening of the new building, and we are part of the information highway. We're proud of that. We want to apply our electronic outreach capabilities and efforts toward building a stronger country, founded on mutual understanding and appreciation between different regions and peoples of our nation.
Some of the more important projects I'd like to highlight is that in 1994 we were the first museum in Canada to have a considerable World Wide Web site, and one of the very first national museums in the world to go on-line with the World Wide Web site.
We've digitized over 4 million catalogue records and over 200,000 high-definition images from our collections, as a prelude to giving electronic access to our Canadian and global audiences. We have produced over a dozen interactive CDs - a few of them are before me here - the new technology of publication, mostly through co-venture partnerships. They are all based on human history, mostly Canadian history, and there are more right now in production.
Our very own CD-ROM, Canada's Visual History, is now available to schools and libraries across Canada. Amongst our recent releases are Back the Attack: Canadian Women and the Second World War, from the Canadian War Museum, and one of the painting collections of the Canadian War Museum.
In 1994, in partnerships with the Charles R. Bronfman Foundation, the Department of Canadian Heritage and Digital Renaissance, another partner with Digital Equipment of Canada, we produced a heritage kiosk. That kiosk is now distributed in British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and the Northwest Territories.
So in each of those regions, this program, which is based on a very remarkable contribution of Charles Bronfman to our self-knowledge of Canadian history, is being enjoyed in those areas, with elaboration of each one of those products by our museum.
[Translation]
We are working on the development of the Musée de la Nouvelle-France, a virtual museum - a museum without walls. This project, initiated by the Canadian Museum of Civilization, involves partnerships with both public and private sectors from Canada, France and USA.
.1130
It will be a showcase of Canadian savoir-faire in the way of presenting our rich Canadian heritage through new digital technology. It will be an evolving long-term project with a regularly changing programming. The Musée de la Nouvelle-France Web site will open on June 29th.
[English]
One of the most significant steps of late for Canadian cultural institutions was the recent announcement by our Prime Minister that all schools in Canada will be linked to the broad-band SchoolNet initiative. As a member of the SchoolNet National Advisory Board, I'm encouraging the museum staff to develop special programming for student access to Canadian heritage learning modules throughout the country, and in both official languages.
At the moment, the CMC staff is developing a mentoring project that consists of two phases. Phase one aims to have researchers from our staff linked to each classroom that is participating. As source people, they will work with grade 7 and grade 8 students to undertake research on an aspect of their community heritage that is represented in our collections. They format the results into Web pages, and these are posted on the school's Web site - each school is preparing one - and they are linked to our Web site. So international visitors can actually see what Canadian children right across the country are doing in this area.
I'll skip the second phase of that. It happens next year with some contests and so on.
We're currently working on a major expansion of the Web site, in which the site will be divided into two sections. The first one we call the store front. It is similar to our existing Web site, it will be freely accessible to all Web surfers, and it comprises mostly general information about our museums. And the other section is the virtual museum. This will be the expansion area, and it goes on-line one week from now.
The virtual museum will require Web surfers to register as members and to access by account name and password. The content will be in-depth knowledge resources from the museum on a wide range of subjects relating to our mandate, and will be aimed at different audiences - the general public, students, scholars and hobbyists. Some of the elements we hope to present for the launch of the virtual museum this summer include: Masters of the Crafts; and the Canada Hall Phase II Galleries, where you can actually do a moving tour through all of the exhibit halls in the Canada Hall, the Treasures Gallery and the Civilizations Gallery. An exclusively on-line exhibition featuring a selection from our collection of aboriginal artifacts will also be on-line, as will be our annual report.
[Translation]
In partnership with the Digital Equipment of Canada, the New Media Centre was recently opened on the premises of the Canadian Museum of Civilization. The Centre works with large, medium and small content providers and offers them the enabling technologies and expertise for the conversion, authoring and development of content and applications for this new and evolving multimedia marketplace.
Its research and development is being done in conjunction with universities, and the economic sector in the area of human interface studies.
[English]
To conclude, the highlights of our short-term projects, which both traditional and non-traditional methods, will be highlighted by a major campaign that will be launched via advertisement on May 16, 1996. ``Le bon aventure''/``Canada: the Adventure Continues'' is the byword of our launch.
Two themes will promote our summer programming on the plaza. ``The Ties That Bind'', a reference to housing the transcontinental railway and it's impact on Canada, will promote the opening of our western galleries to immigration from eastern Europe. ``Coast-to-Coast Flights'', which is a Simex Inc. simulator - and I might mention that this is a brand-new Canadian technology - is a 42-passenger, moving motion theatre, in which the film and the motion of the passenger are linked together. So we will have a coast-to-coast trip in this exciting new technology, and if you've noticed a huge structure arising on our plaza, that's what it is.
.1135
Our IMAX and OMNIMAX screen - of course, both of those are Canadian inventions in the cinema - will feature Momentum, which was the first high-definition IMAX film and was produced for the World's Fair in Seville, and we'll have a new 3-D theatre with 3-D laser enhancement showing a film that was produced by the Science North science centre in Sudbury and has excited many audiences there.
We'll also have a new peacekeeping gallery at the Canadian War Museum, which will feature ``We Stand on Guard for Peace''. And for the first time, the Vimy House, where all of the equipment like the big tanks, the small submarines, the trucks and other transport vehicles are kept, will be on display on selected weekends throughout the summer.
``Strokes of Genius'' will focus on the preview opening of the First Peoples Hall, along with the state of the art transformation and exhibition that is sponsored by Seagram and is dedicated to the last ten years of the Sadie Bronfman Award, which they have been financing throughout that time.
[Translation]
The Canadian Experience, a unique multi-sensorial show involving the integration of ambulatory theatre, using the historical scenery of the Canada Hall and a spectacular Northwest Coast culture, sound and light performance amid the totem poles of the Grand Hall.
It will bring to life the myths and legends that form our rich Canadian heritage at the Canadian Museum of Civilization during the Summer of 1996. This is an in-house production.
[English]
In conclusion, I'd like to mention that what has been raised on and off over recent years is the idea of a national pilgrimage to the nation's capital and all of the institutions that exist here, in order to safeguard and maintain the values and treasures of Canada. By this, I mean the Supreme Court, the Parliament Buildings, all of the other museums and galleries and many other sites, homes of Prime Ministers, etc. In today's secularized society, cultural institutions - and particularly national museums - represent a primary ritual space that people can visit, and where they can contemplate the contribution of many Canadian heroines and heroes and their own individual role in the Canada of the future.
I would like to see eventually a son et lumière - I mentioned that we're doing one in the Grand Hall this summer - on the river between the museum and the Parliament Buildings, because of that wonderful view from Hull. It would be a grand pageant of the nation's history portrayed in dramatic fashion throughout the summer from the river that has carried trade and commerce into the interior of Canada for more than 6,000 years - that's according to the archaeological work that we have done on that river. However, we need financial assistance to undertake such an ambitious project of Canadian pride.
We feel that because we have, over the last seven years, acquired the knowledge and expertise needed for operating theatres and special attractions, and now son et lumière events, we could do something of international stature on the level of the productions of Cirque du Soleil, which is a pride to all Canadians. And if various participants from across the country, both from the public sector as well as the private sector - for example, the airlines - could be encouraged to involve themselves in such a worthwhile concept as a pilgrimage to the national capital, I'm sure Canadians from all walks of life would realize that there is indeed a common Canadian identity that is the glue that keeps Canada whole.
[Translation]
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
The Chairman: Thank you, Dr. MacDonald.
I'll open questions with a ten-minute round.
[Translation]
The Official Opposition now has the floor. Go ahead, Mr. Leroux.
Mr. Leroux (Richmond - Wolfe): First of all, I would like to thank Ms Clarkson andMr. MacDonald for their presentations. They filled us in, in great detail, on what is coming further down the road and on what is being worked on now, namely, what is coming up next.
I have a few questions to ask you about your presentation, Mr. MacDonald, particularly with respect to the upcoming introduction of new technologies. However, since we do not have much time, I would like to go back, very briefly, to something which is closer to home, namely, the Museum in Hull.
.1140
More specifically, I would like to discuss the problems raised by the Commissioner of Official Languages in his report with respect to the use of French and the difficulties that have occurred at the Canadian Museum of Civilization in Hull. I would like to touch upon a few points of particular concern to us. Ms Clarkson, you talked at great length about Canadian identity and two official languages.
However, the Commissioner states that, recently, at least 10 complaints were filed with respect to the Canadian Museum of Civilization. One of these complaints pertained to the computer system at the Collections Management Services Division.
You talked at great length about the future. I would like to try to make a link between the future and the use of languages. I'm referring to a software that was not available in French and to one of the complaints with respect to the language spoken during meetings.
I would like to point out that this problem is not a new one, because, according to the report, nearly 11% of francophones working in the Public Service write in French and 65% of the bilingual positions are filled by francophones. Moreover, 80% of the meetings must take place in English in the workplace.
Along with these problems, there are also the restrictions caused by the supervisor's linguistic failings, their inability to create a work environment where French is used.
As it seems that efforts have been made to ensure that these situations do not occur, how is it that in Hull, the Canadian Museum of Civilization still has problems concerning the use of French at work and in its communications?
Ms Clarkson: Sir, as you know, thanks to the report, the Museum has already accepted all the recommendations and we've already implemented four of them concerning the technology you spoke of. I'll leave this question to Mr. Joe Geurts.
Mr. Joe Geurts (Chief Operating Officer and Senior Vice-President, Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation): As our chairwoman said, there may be problems from time to time amongst the employees concerning a specific matter. We are, however, setting up a plan which should iron out the kinks so that they don't reoccur in the future.
As was stated in the report, we have bilingual services for all people visiting the Museum on the World Wide Web. In the same way, concerning software, we have a process that allows to always have available completely bilingual programs. I don't think we'll have to deal with this problem any longer.
Mr. Leroux: Is it possible to establish a link between these complaints and the data that you provided to the Treasury Board concerning the Museum's job structure? Out of a total of542 employees, you have 223 English speakers and 319 French speakers. There are therefore a greater number of francophone employees.
Moreover, looking at it more closely, the higher up you go in the pyramid, the fewer the management and professional positions are held by francophones. At the management level there are 126 English speakers for 75 French speakers. When you go back down towards administrative and operating support staff, the situation is reversed. Three quarters of the support staff is francophone and one quarter anglophone. Could this management structure be tied to the difficulty there is in creating a French workplace?
At the administrative and operating support staff level, the proportion of employees is almost one third to two thirds. There are 34 anglophones, as opposed to 101 francophones amongst the administrative support staff, and in operations, 34 anglophones compared to 110 francophones.
It would seem that the greater the salary, the fewer the number of francophones, who have less and less influence on management. You wonder whether francophones aren't mainly in the positions with the least prerequisites, without saying that these are positions for incompetence.
Do you see a tie between the job structure and the difficulty in creating a French-speaking workplace, and the complaints sent to the Commissioner for Officials Languages?
.1145
Ms Clarkson: I don't think things are as simple as that. We are of course very aware of the issue concerning the use of both our official languages. We must always remain alert so that this is reflected in the hierarchy, in our structure's pyramid.
I've been there for six months, and most people that I have contact with speak French. I don't think it's simply a matter of division between francophones and anglophones or francophones and allophones, but also a matter of the language used at work.
I'd like to let you discuss it further with Joe Geurts and then Sylvie Morel.
Mr. Geurts: As our Chair was saying, it is possible to speak, in our museum or in any other museum, in one language or the other at any time. There's no problem there. When we have meetings, there are people who speak in French and others who speak in English. That's the situation. Perhaps Sylvie would like to add something to that.
Mrs. Sylvie Morel (Director General, Exhibitions and Programmes, Canadian Museum of Civilizations): The meetings of the executive committees and management committees - the exhibition committee, the program group committee and the publications committee - are often in both languages, and people may make their comment in one language or the other. The minutes of the meetings are also written up that way. It's the same thing for the executive committee, the management committee and the program group committee.
Mr. Leroux: You tell me that things go on in the speaker's language, be it English or French. But according to the complaints, it isn't really possible to hold a meeting in French. People must be bilingual to take part in the meeting.
What I'm saying seems simplistic to you. And yet it matches the statistics you've provided. The structure is there. The numbers speak for themselves.
I don't think it's simplistic to notice that the higher up you go in the pyramid, the more positions are held by anglophones. Have you made an effort to correct this situation, so that there's a true balance in management positions? We know that that is where you influence directions. It's from there that you influence the work of the future and the way of working. It may seem simplistic, but I repeat that it's at those levels that people have influence. Do you have a policy to correct this situation?
Mr. Geurts: In the last six months, we've given two other mandates to our executive committee: a person to head the development division and another to head the public affairs position. One of these people is anglophone and the other, francophone. We always look for a qualified and bilingual people.
Mr. Leroux: In your general presentation of all the projects, which seem very dynamic to me, it is said that there will be a place for both official languages, particularly in programs for children. What is you strategy? You spoke of getting French and English diskettes, and so on. Do you have an integrated strategy for the future of all these projects?
As to the diskettes, I don't know if those that weren't presented to us in French exist at all. For instance, does the diskette Back the Attack exist in French? Do you have an integrated strategy in this respect?
M. MacDonald: Yes, our policy is that all our products exist in both official languages. We are the agents for the translation of IMAX films throughout the world and even in France. At this very moment, one of our films, Les Mayas, is in theatres in Paris and Poitiers. We carried out the translation, for the French-speaking world, of all the films and exhibitions.
.1150
That is our policy.
Mr. Leroux: Thank you, Madam Chair and Mr. Director General.
The Chairman: I'd like to give the floor to the government. Mr. Bélanger, would you start please?
Mr. Bélanger (Ottawa - Vanier): As you know, Mr. Chairman, I'm never at a loss for questions.
I'd like to congratulate the museum. As it isn't far, on the other side of the river, I go regularly. It may have had a few problems at the beginning, but I think, given what I've seen during my visits, that all the products, all the presentations and all public services are now quite polished in both languages. If that wasn't the case, I'd be the first to complain. I registered a complaint concerning another museum recently. Perhaps you will hear of it soon.
A voice: [inaudible]
Mr. Bélanger: Yes, I understand. However, the impression I get from my regular visits is still quite good. It isn't the same with all government services.
I'd like to ask you a question concerning the War Museum. We've been hearing for quite a while that there isn't enough space at the War Museum. From time to time, there are rumours of moving, or of buying. Can you give us an update on the exact situation of that museum, Madam Chair?
Ms Clarkson: Yes, sir. We are presently trying to solve the problem because it's true that we don't have enough space.
There are two ways of dealing with this matter. When I accepted to chair the board of trustees, one of the first things I did, after visiting the Museum of Civilisation and the War Museum, was to go, with the two directors of these museums, to Vimy House, the place where the tanks, submarines, and so on, are kept. It's very interesting.
There are two ways to deal with this matter. We don't have enough space for all the objects we own, given that Canada has played a very important military role in history. It might be better to speak about this with Vic, the Director of the War Museum, concerning the space we have and the space we foresee having.
Mr. Victor Suthren (Director General, Canadian War Museum): Thank you, Madam.
As Ms Clarkson was saying, we obviously do not have enough space to present these objects. We presently display about 1% of our collection. We are still next to the Royal Canadian Mint, on Sussex, that goes without saying.
We try to do two things. First of all, the Corporation is looking into possibilities, in the national capital region, for moving Vimy House to another place where we could display exhibitions and organize demonstrations of vehicles, tanks, and so on. Mr. Geurts could explain that to you better than I.
Concerning exhibitions, we are carrying out a fundraising campaign, which we call "Passing the torch", in order to build a small theatre behind 330 Sussex Drive, and increase our space, our galleries, by about 40%.
If we can manage that and if, at the same time, the Corporation manages to find another spot for the Vimy House operations, it will be possible for us in the future to present more activities in a bigger space.
Mr. Bélanger: You're talking about Vimy House.
[English]
Are you talking about the spot where the kick-off breakfast for the tulip festival expo is held?
Mr. Suthren: That's right. That's the old OC Transpo.
Mr. Bélanger: Is this the one you're planning to open on weekends this summer?
Mr. Suthren: That's right.
Mr. Bélanger: Are you charging admission on this?
Mr. Suthren: At the moment, we're going to start with an open house. But eventually we will charge admission. It's revenue generation. We've got to charge.
[Translation]
Mr. Bélanger: How much space do you need to replace Vimy House?
Mr. Suthren: Vimy House is 114,000 square feet in size. We need about 150,000 square feet. That's what we're looking for.
Mr. Bélanger: And you're collaborating with Public Works, I imagine?
.1155
Ms Clarkson: No. Can somebody else answer the question?
Mr. Geurts: I don't think it's necessary in the Museum Corporation's case. Responsibility for all facilities has been transferred to us.
Mr. Bélanger: Concerning the enlarging of the museum, has anyone thought of calling it something other than "War Museum"? What would you think of "War and Peace Museum", or "Military Museum"? I find that "War Museum" gives a violent impression.
How far along are we with the expansion plans? Are they specific? When will they be made tangible? What sort of fundraising campaign are you carrying out, with this in mind?
Mr. Suthren: The campaign is being carried by the Friends of the Canadian War Museum. It was started two years ago. Up until now, we've gathered about $700,000. Our objective is$6 million.
Mr. Bélanger: Six or ten?
Mr. Suthren: Six.
Mr. Bélanger: Six million dollars, and you have $700,000.
Mr. Suthren: Yes.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Shepherd.
Mr. Shepherd (Durham): Thank you very much. I so enjoyed your presentation. I am certainly supportive of your mandate to increase Canadian identity and the awareness Canadians have of their culture.
I have just one very small point. In both of your presentations you mentioned not all the artifacts were necessarily Canadian, and there were some other obviously foreign presentations. If it is the Canadian Museum of Civilization, why is this the case?
Ms Clarkson: I think Dr. MacDonald can certainly address this. I would assume, from having seen some of the things in the reserves and so on, that we have a history. The building is new, but historically we've had a collection for probably 100 years. So we have a lot of things in our collection. For instance, we have a costume collection, and not necessarily all the hats are Canadian. They might have been given to us or we might have acquired them because they represented a certain kind of thing. And they might not have been made in Canada.
Certainly Dr. MacDonald can address this.
Dr. MacDonald: Yes, I would like to confirm what the chairwoman has said. But I would also like to say that in our collection policies we target pieces people have brought with them from countries of origin. While those are items manufactured elsewhere, they were treasured items. If a family had to move and they could only take three things, what are they going to take? If they're Swiss, they're going to take their clock, and so on. Chinese immigrants, for example, brought puppets and things to put on theatrical performances for the small Chinese community in Saskatoon.
We've made an effort to select and collect, community by community, pieces that will reinforce the ties to the old world countries. Each one of them has a pedigree and a history that makes it important as part of the Canadian fabric and the Canadian past.
Mr. Shepherd: Thank you. I hear and I applaud your effort to be interactive in Canada as a whole, using the World Wide Web, etc.
Do you attempt to measure, especially in our school systems, younger Canadians' awareness of their identity? Do you try to measure the failings of the system in teaching our younger generation the whole concept of Canadian identity? Do you try to measure this in some form?
Dr. MacDonald: Yes, and for the first time we have been given the perfect tool to do this. This, of course, is the Web. In the museum, the Web is hooked to the big computers Digital runs on our behalf. You can measure how many times each of those students asks a particular question, how long students stay with a topic, what really really intrigues them and what they want to pursue. This kind of tracking record has never been possible before. We are setting up the mechanisms - we already have many of them in place - that can tell us exactly what the students are doing.
This we're matching with the close links we are maintaining with SchoolNet. SchoolNet has programs built into its structure to address the questions you have asked as well as the whole question of jobs and the future of technology in training people for the modern workforce of the future.
.1200
Mr. Shepherd: The problem with your sampling is that it's skewed. You're dealing with the people who have contacted you. My concern is with the entire population. Who hasn't contacted you, and what is their awareness of Canadian identity? I guess the corollary to this is the question of what we do to penetrate this population more effectively.
Dr. MacDonald: This certainly is one of the key questions we ask ourselves very, very frequently. In fact, it's true that the appreciation of Canadian identity as a whole is much lower than the appreciation of national identity in almost any other country in the world.
For example, this is one country without the kind of military apparatus that recruits almost three-quarters of the population into the ranks and then redistributes them as, let's say, a country like Switzerland does, etc.
If you look through the lists of what most countries do to maintain a sense of national identity, you see they do so by actually putting people into different areas of the country through the workforce or through the military. We don't have any of those structures. However, we think we can do something with the new tools.
As Innis, McLuhan and many others have pointed out, the survival of this rather unique country we call Canada is really a survival on communications technologies. If they don't make it, we won't make it.
An example is the World Wide Web. This fall there will be sets priced under $500 available to connect people to the Web. Within three years, the telephone companies will be giving them away like some of them are now giving away cellular phones. They'll make their money on the on-line charges. So within three to five years, 90% or more of the Canadian public will be on the Web the same way they're on the telephone network now and the same way they have television sets and VCRs in their homes.
Those statistics are changing so rapidly that the one thing we know is that the educational system is also going to change drastically and radically over the next three or four years. I just think it's an amazing move that we are the first nation in the world to wire up all our schools on a SchoolNet system. There's no other country, including the United States, that has done this. So the revolution is about to begin. What we are trying to do is position ourselves.
The Chairman: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Shepherd.
[Translation]
One small comment, Mr. Leroux.
Mr. Leroux: I have a question and a final brief comment, if you'll allow me, Mr. Chair.
My question has to do with fundraising. I'd like to know what percent of your budget fundraising represents. Concerning the management of this fundraising, I'd like to know what its costs are, what you invest in it and what it yields. Is it efficient and what are the projections?
Mr. Geurts: We now have the numbers for last year. We gathered $8.5 million, in admission fees or otherwise. The cost was almost 30%.
Mr. Leroux: The cost to bring in $8 million was 30%?
Mr. Geurts: Around 30%. I have to check. I have the numbers here. The photographs bring in revenue. There aren't really any costs in that they were already accounted for in the past. Presently, there are still some costs but there is no increase in the cost of bringing in this revenue.
Business enterprises bring in, I believe, $6.5 million. I have the figure here. For business enterprises, which made $6.5 million in revenue, the costs mount to $4 million. The other $2 million are revenue from photographs or other such things.
Mr. Leroux: And fundraising represents what percentage of the overall budget?
Mr. Geurts: Overall?
Mr. Leroux: Yes.
Mr. Geurts: We have a budget which is presently almost $50 million. Revenues amount to $8.6 million. Our objective for next year is $10 million.
.1205
Mr. Leroux: I'd like to make one last comment to follow up on the one made by my colleague, Mr. Bélanger. I wasn't alluding specifically to the language used in the services. I think we can agree on that. I was mostly thinking of the work language. I'm disappointed with the answer I was given, because I don't think there's a will or a strategy to correct the situation that exists concerning the work language.
Thank you.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Peric, you may ask a brief question.
Mr. Peric (Cambridge): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. MacDonald, I'm very impressed with your presentation. Could you tell us where you see the Museum of Civilization 10 or 20 years from now?
Dr. MacDonald: That's an interesting timeframe. As an archaeologist, I tend to think thousands of years either in the past or in the future.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
Dr. MacDonald: I see museums taking on a role other institutions, though not intentionally, are abdicating in one way or another. As we move into the knowledge industry and a knowledge-based society, I think we will look at the repositories of our collective knowledge, whether they are archives or museums, as cultural dynamos.
In the past we've looked at museums as the nation's attic, perhaps. Well, in the future I think we will look at them more as the source of inspiration for future artistic, commercial and cultural development.
Making this material available is what is so strikingly new. In the past we have not been able to put, for example, more than 1% of the artifacts out. In the past few years, I've done surveys showing all the big European museums as well as the Smithsonian and American museums never get more than 1% of their collections before their publics. This figure includes their travelling shows and their permanent exhibitions. Our objective now is to have 100% of the collections available electronically anywhere in this country and anywhere in the world. This is a huge difference.
We are putting all the mechanisms in place to achieve this and at the same time finding cross-structures for the users who are working more on a utility basis. They will get information packaged as they wish it at bargain prices. At the same time this will allow us to use the revenues to sustain the system, because you can't ever abandon those systems. Once you're on that track you have to stay on the track, and we don't expect to have Treasury Board and Government of Canada pay all this freight. We think it can be self-sustaining.
Mr. Peric: Thank you.
The Chairman: Thank you very much. I wish we had more time.
I would like to thank you, Ms Clarkson, Dr. MacDonald, Mr. Geurts, Mr. Suthren and Madame Morel, for your appearance here. It was extremely informative for all the members. I wish we had more time for more questions, but that is the way the ball bounces.
I thank you very much for coming and for your excellent presentation. I think we're all much more informed than we were before.
Witnesses: Thank you.
.1209
.1212
The Chairman: Could we get going, please.
[Translation]
I'd like to introduce the Chairman of the board of trustees of the Canadian Museumof Nature, Mr. Frank Ling, the President, Mr. Alan Emery, the Assistant Vice-president,Mr. Patrick Colgan, the Vice-president for public programs, Mr. Leslie Patten, and the Program Director, Mr. Colin Eades.
[English]
If I've gotten mixed up and haven't covered all the members of your panel, please introduce them, Dr. Ling.
[Translation]
Mr. Frank Ling (Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Canadian Museum of Nature): Thank you, Mr. Chairman
[English]
and members of the parliamentary standing committee.
First of all, may I say how honoured and privileged I feel to be here as a newly appointed chair of the Canadian Museum of Nature. I'm proud of the fact that I'm now in this role, because I can recall 30 years ago when we first came to this country, and the city of our choice was Montreal. I can say, and can say it proudly, that I have now been married to this great country for 30 years. This was largely as a result of my falling in love with the beauty of Canadian nature and the kindness and gentleness of the Canadian people. I am now a part of this country.
My appointment took place less that a month ago. Of course, I've been doing a lot of homework. Perhaps I can call this the valentine day of our marriage. I recall the afternoon when I had to ponder whether I should take on this great challenge. I bought an admission ticket to the Canadian Museum of Nature and to my great joy there were hundreds of children around me enjoying the exhibits and programs of the museum. This really triggered by enthusiasm and desire to serve, because these children are the very important offsprings of my marriage.
My past experience is not only as an architect and urban planner; I've been involved with other public agencies. I was the chairman of the Ottawa Police Services Board and was involved for nearly eight years in initiating community policing, community programming and the change of police culture.
In my further involvement as a member of the board of trustees of the Ottawa General Hospital and as the chair of the audit committee of the hospital, I gained experience in dealing with budget cuts as well as with the fostering of scientific research, and I also had the opportunity of dealing with human beings.
.1215
How to deal with harmonizing needs would also assist me in my current role, in addition to the fact that I've been a constant world traveller throughout my life.
I must confess I've been spoiled by my fellow Canadians in many cities in Quebec. They are very kind. Whenever we meet they speak to me in English. That did not discourage me from taking French lessons. I'm sure now I'm involved in one of the national institutions that would give me a further opportunity to learn this very important national language.
I want to take this opportunity, first of all, to introduce my team. Of course the president of the museum is Dr. Alan Emery. Mr. Colin Eades is program director of the museum. Dr. Patrick Colgan is the executive vice-president of the museum. Ms Leslie Patten is vice-president of public programming.
The Chairman: Could I ask you this, if I may interrupt, Mr. Ling. Will your presentation will be the museum's, or will Dr. Emery speak as well? It's just so we know how long it will be and we can adjust ourselves.
Mr. Ling: I will spend no more than ten or fifteen minutes highlighting the objectives, goals, and challenges of the museum. Then I will pass on to Dr. Emery to highlight some of our current projects and programs.
The Chairman: Could you divide it by two? Otherwise we won't have a chance to ask any questions. If by any chance you could summarize your thoughts - and I would ask Dr. Emery to do likewise - so the members have a chance to ask you questions, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
Mr. Ling: About the mandate given to the museum, the way I see it, there are two parts. The objectives are to increase the interest in knowledge, appreciation, and respect for the natural world. The instruments are to establish, maintain, and develop research collections and demonstrate knowledge and understanding.
To my mind there are many challenges ahead. First is the economic challenge of appropriations, which will reflect the economic situation of the country and the world; fund-raising constraints in the economic situation; tourism, affected by the same economic situation; and public interest, in terms of the focus on jobs and work.
Second is transition. I think the board of trustees is going through a period of transition and so is the new corporate culture of re-examining ourselves in terms of community needs and the need for fine-tuning our research ability.
Third is the public perception of the the values of museums and their relevance as partners in research and education.
These are the challenges. Our focus is how to do more with less, at least to maintain what we have, consolidating ourselves, reorganizing ourselves, optimizing effectiveness and the efficiency through appropriate balance - and I underline the word ``balance'' - between spheres of excellence in research and relevant public programming.
As a result of this focus, the current board has created four directives to management. First is to be accountable to society. Second is to be an entrepreneur. Third is effective communications. Fourth is to promote national spirit.
.1220
The approach I would like to take as the chair, in terms of inspiring our board, which in turn would inspire management, which in turn would be able to serve the people of this country effectively and efficiently, is that we should always not take things for granted, we should not be satisfied with any achievement, and we should always assume that there might be crises from time to time.
I would like to borrow the word ``crisis'' in Chinese, which is actually made out of two words. The first part of that word is danger; the second part is opportunities. I think we as a board of trustees and management endeavour to overcome our economic transition and public perception, so-called dangers, and make intelligent use of the opportunities that have been bestowed upon us by our fellow Canadians and friends from other parts of the world.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to invite any questions, either directly to me or through me to other members of the senior management team. But before we do that, I would invite Dr. Emery to present to you and highlight to you some of the programs and projects that the museum has been or will be undertaking. Thank you very much.
The Chairman: Thank you for respecting the time constraint.
Dr. Emery.
Dr. Alan Emery (President, Canadian Museum of Nature): Mr. Chair, I'll try to do exactly the same.
The museum, as you know and as our chairman has pointed out, has essentially three basic functions. One is to research. The basic purpose of that is to understand the natural world and to create new knowledge about it from which new understandings can take place.
In our collections area, we of course have a basic purpose of holding materials that represent the natural soul of the country for posterity and also, importantly, as evidence for research and as materials that can be used to demonstrate the new understanding and new knowledge to the public of Canada and abroad.
Finally, in our public programming we have a major effort here to attempt to communicate with the general public all of this new knowledge we've discovered.
Within that area there are three basic goals. One is to improve nature literacy in Canadians, and also science literacy - those are different kinds of things. We do that through a third goal of creating a guided conversation with Canadians.
The museum focuses its efforts through three programs. First is the Arctic, dealing with the problems and solutions to those problems in the far north and also in the far south. Biodiversity is the second one, in which we're dealing with the problems of the loss of species in the world today. The third has to do with origins - the modern problems often have natural origins, and if we understand those natural origins we can come to terms with them better.
Very briefly, within the research area we're developing predictive models that allow us to find solutions to problems that are facing us in the natural world. The focus on creating predictive models creates also for us the ability to produce networks of cooperation in partnership across the country. It goes without saying, when you do that we work also to preserve and to enhance the national unity of our country.
I'd like to mention four projects there. One has to do with Arctic change - that is, focusing on the high degree of contemporary change that's taking place in the Arctic right now and asking how we can work to help solve those problems.
The second one is, given that there are major losses of species in the world today, how one goes about choosing what are the best possible areas and best possible variables to use in choosing those areas to make preserves, to make areas to conserve the natural environment.
Another one we're working on right now is looking at four different elements and attempting to create models of how we can predict the location of those in the natural environment, which will enhance Canada's capacity to find the strategically important materials we need today for our survival.
.1225
Another one you might be interested in has to do with looking at the far past, what happened to the world in the distant past when the dinosaurs disappeared. We're on a track now that, at least in loss of species, would be similar to that.
In collections, our prime focus of course is the move. We are moving, we hope by the end of this calendar year, to a new building in Aylmer, which will be the result of a consolidation of some fourteen buildings into two buildings. The main exhibit building will remain at Metcalfe and McLeod. The new building in Aylmer will consolidate the other thirteen buildings together.
We also have in the collections area a national collections strategy, in which we are attempting to bring together, at least conceptually, the collections of Canada both electronically and possibly even physically, so we can best rationalize the way they're used in our country.
In public programming we have two basic areas of operations. One is in the national capital region. Of course that's focused in the building here. Several exhibitions on right now have been a huge success. I'm sure a lot of you have taken the oportunity to visit Sharks. It has been a resounding success. We've had attendance records in all the months it has been there, often as high as 80% above our previous best.
Another one is Nature's Pharmacy, which is a wonderful new concept that has been developed to encourage people to be in touch with the natural world, understand how it works, and take that in a very personal way.
Nature and the News is a way of focusing on things that are highlighting the newspapers today and bringing an underpinning of scientific and general knowledge to bear on those subjects.
Out of the building, we have many travelling exhibits. They travel across the country. They're international. I might mention just one that's of particular interest because of a result that came from it.
One of the important things about our kinds of organizations is that they leave a legacy for the country. It's not just that we put on fun exhibits or carry out esoteric research. One exhibit we prepared was a three-partner exhibit, partly with Mexico, with two partners in Canada. This dealt with the monarch butterfly. The monarch butterfly is a species that flies all the way to Mexico over winter and then over a series of generations makes its way back all the way to Canada to breed and so on in the summer.
The exhibit first opened in Ottawa. Then it travelled to Mexico. In Mexico it made such a stir and was so powerful an influence that on the dedication of certain areas to protect the monarch butterfly in the high mountains of Mexico our exhibit was mentioned as one of the major factors contributing to influencing public opinion that this would be an area that needed to be preserved in Mexico. Interestingly, the same kind of influence was acknowledged by the Department of the Environment in Canada when three areas on the north shore of Lake Erie were designated here to preserve the jump-off points for the migration of the monarch butterfly.
We also have displays in airports. Perhaps one of the most exciting is to create a series of what we consider to be communication nodes across Canada, where the people in the community will help us to create a capacity to talk to other people in Canada about the natural world on a real-time basis. We're currently working in several communities in the far north. We hope to have a pilot project running at the World Conservation Congress in Montreal in October 1996, this year, demonstrating how that would work to create the guided conservation that will help people to communicate amongst ourselves, as Canadians, about the natural world.
Thank you very much.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Dr. Emery.
Mr. Leroux.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Thank you, Mr. Ling and Mr. Emery, for your presentation. I'd first like to welcome Mr. Ling, recently appointed chairman of this museum. I'm sure you only want the best for the museum and its development.
You were saying however, Mr. Ling, that in Chinese, the word ``crisis'' means danger and opportunity. I imagine, and you can confirm this if it's the case, that ``opportunity'' means reviewing the situation, raising your consciousness, redirecting, changing, and so on. In the context of Chinese wisdom, ``opportunity'' undoubtedly has that meaning.
.1230
Mr. Ling, I would like to share with you the main concerns at the heart of the great controversy concerning the Museum's management, that the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada qualifies, amongst other things, as unhealthy.
There were some tumultuous events. In 1994, the Institute published a document with information obtained under the Freedom to Information Act - as it's never easy to get that kind of information - which contained, amongst other things, serious accusations of poor management. It worries me to hear Mr. Emery say that their primary mandate is research, when 17 scientists were fired while the number of managers, and the payroll, went up. According to information I've obtained, the situation has since been rectified by unionizing certain positions and modifying the functions.
The document revealed that fundraising campaigns set up by the Museum were very profitable to the firms that managed them, but not to the Museum. It was also stated that management positions had been filled without any competition, often by people who had already had contracts with the Museum.
Moreover, loud protests were heard all over following the Museum's decision to change its scientific vocation into a more commercial one. The union's accusations led the Museum to ask Peat Marwick Thorne to carry out some forensic accounting, which is to say a study to verify the union's allegations.
I will quote the opinion of the Department of Justice lawyer who had studied this affair. She said, and I will quote the English words she used, that there had been ``incompetence and gross mismanagement''. This study was given to the board of directors and the museum refused to release it publicly. The union obtained it through a court order. There were some major difficulties mentioned therein.
That study clearly showed that the upper management of the museum used poor management practices and that the union's claims were in fact true.
Recently, Mr. Robert LeBlanc, the Director General's right arm, was dismissed; other administrators were also dismissed and have left their jobs in the course of the past few weeks; the Chairman of the Board of Directors whom you replaced and the Chairman of the Auditing Committee have both resigned.
A lot of questions remain unanswered about that situation. Would it be possible for the members of our committee to obtain a copy of the report from Pete Marwick Thorne?
You can probably guess that my first question will be about the possible links between the departure of Mr. LeBlanc and the other two administrators and the fact that the report was made public. Nothing seemed to budge before that, and now things are moving. Are those departures related to the publication of the report?
Secondly, and along the same lines, I would like to know if other managers will be affected by this exercise. I will have more questions later.
[English]
Mr. Ling: Thank you for the question. I will try to answer that in general terms, and then also invite Dr. Emery to answer part of your question in more specific terms.
I think you're quite right, sir, when you point me to the fact that the word ``crisis'' has two parts, danger and opportunities. It is important always to assume that there might be dangers from time to time, even though some might not be real dangers. I think it's always a responsible attitude to have to take that as an assumption.
.1235
One of my main tasks, if not the very main one, is to make sure the board of trustees is the major decision-making body. It is my role, and I've already done that by calling every single member of the board of trustees within the short duration of my term, which is within the last two weeks or less, to make sure that the board itself is the body that would be looked upon with trust by everybody - management and the community at large.
It is my commitment to visit all parts of the museum, to look at all the collections, and also to talk and be able to see all management staff, not just senior management but even people associated with the museum, stakeholders, to listen, first of all, to what the needs are. There is a difference between their wants and their needs.
For me, the needs are important, because I want to make sure that those are genuine needs, which our projects and programs will reflect.
In terms of the copy of the audit, definitely, I think, within the proper procedure that can be provided to you. This is obviously something that would fit the procedure. People in this committee are entitled to review. So I need some guidance on that, but I myself would always like to conduct things above board, with a completely open mind.
Within my short term as the chair, I have now instigated, through our audit and finance committee, a management audit. We want to look at things by people from the outside, as well as my contacts with the people working in the museum and the general public working the museum.
I want to take advantage of my presence in Ottawa. I hope this can be of some help. Instead of having constantly to fly in for just a few days, I want to be really on top of things, and that requires a great skill on my part in terms of what I would call the art of anticipation.
As to the actual management situation in terms of the termination of Mr. LeBlanc and so on, I would refer to Dr. Emery to answer that.
Dr. Emery: I guess it's really important to understand that the museum, like many other organizations in the modern world, is attempting to come to grips with what society is asking of it. Our museum, like museums around the world, has been undergoing a massive transformation. Most other museums that are attempting to do this kind of transformation so that they will be in closer touch with society are experiencing many of the same kinds of turmoil, stresses, from that change.
There are several points that you've made that we need to address directly.
First, while it's true that in 1993-94 PIPS and many other people in the museum, not PIPS alone, were concerned, were ill at ease with all of the changes that we were undertaking, since then there is no question that this has manifestly improved dramatically. Many of the scientists who are with us working strongly on these integrated projects are powerful entities in themselves, and the projects are taking on meanings and strengths that we could never have achieved in the old style of carrying out business.
Actually, the number of researchers that we laid off was not 17; it was 7. Two of those scientists ultimately did not get laid off in the strictest sense, but in fact I extended their terms so that they could retire. The seven we laid off were in areas where there is already a fairly strong knowledge in Canada of the types of science that the museum is working in. So we strategically left the right kinds of scientists behind, recognizing that we cannot, and neither can any other museum regardless of how large, cover the entire natural world. We focused on those areas that in Canada are least well known.
.1240
In terms of fund-raising, you suggested that I had paid lots of money to some organization and didn't make any money back. In actual fact, we raised between $8 million and $10 million in the period of time that I think is in question. We did so with about 20% to 25% cost involved. Some of the singular events were spectacular successes; others were much less successful. But taken as a whole, the fund-raising was a success. It became, and I think still is, a milestone in Canadian museum history for raising that amount of cash for that small amount of money.
I think the accusation that we're moving away somehow from scientific to business is somewhat misguided. I'm confused by it - let me say that - because in the last several years and on a programmed base into the future, we are increasing our percentage of budget spent on the sciences. While we are indeed becoming entrepreneurial, as with other organizations around the world, the profits or the fruits of that entrepreneurialism are intended to increase our capacity to carry out science, not to decrease it.
I think also it's important for me to address directly the question you asked about the two senior managers that were laid off. Actually, the one - not Mr. LeBlanc, to whom you've referred - was not a lay-off. His contract was due to end in the middle of May, and we simply did not renew it.
As to the other one, for Mr. LeBlanc, as you probably know, in museums, in addition to the fun parts of the program there are also the support aspects - finance, administration, security, taking care of buildings and all those sorts of things - which are very important and which underpin all of those mandate areas of the museum.
In our case, to achieve the kinds of aspirations that our chairman of the board spoke about in streamlining, we have embarked on a program of restructuring the area in which Mr. LeBlanc was in charge. We're redefining his position, so we don't need somebody exactly like that any more. I simply asked him to step down on that ground.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Thank you. I appreciate your reply.
Mr. Emery, there is no denying that the report blames the administration. Heads are rolling all around you. The report seems to implicate the Director General, and I am somewhat concerned by that. I want to make sure I understand the reasons behind these transformations correctly. It does happen that when contracts expire they are not renewed.
How long had Mr. LeBlanc been with the museum?
[English]
Dr. Emery: About three and one half years.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Three years, a period which covers that whole episode, etc.
Allow me to say that I see a link between the fact that the Director General's competence was questioned and the fact that you are managing the crisis. Be that as it may, I would like you to tell us whether the administrators who left recently were given any kind of severance or separation payments.
[English]
Dr. Emery: First of all, I'd like to address the concept that people are falling all around me. I think in fact -
The Chairman: Could you make it brief, please?
Dr. Emery: Yes, I will.
I think in fact I've developed a very strong team, and we're progressing very well. There is no link, I think, between the departures of Mr. LeBlanc and Denis Tremblay to any kind of difficulty in the management. The amount of money that is given to people who are laid off is according to a policy established by the Government of Canada, so it's no different than that. In Denis Tremblay's case, because it was an end of contract, there was no money. It was the end of his contract.
.1245
I might also point out that we recently had a special examination by the Office of the Auditor General, and in that massive program review he did not substantiate a single allegation in that document that was prepared by PIPS. Most of the allegations were aimed at finance and administration, just as you have characterized them. So at least in that case and in that sense, there has been no substantiation of those claims.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: I believe that the report confirms that the allegations were grounded. The report singles out the problem quite clearly: bad management was at the heart of the issue.
I would like to squelch that rumour. Unless it is grounded, we will put an end to it right away, since I am asking you to answer the following question clearly. It is rumoured that Mr. LeBlanc was given three year's worth of his salary as severance pay. If that is a rumour, we will put it to rest immediately.
[English]
Dr. Emery: Kill it right away.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Thank you.
The Chairman: Mr. Bélanger.
Mr. Bélanger: Perhaps my comment may seem unusual, and you may attribute it to the fact that I am still new at this, but I want to thank Mr. Leroux for his insight and especially for his perseverance in this matter. Certain questions were raised and I think it augurs well that efforts are still being made to get a good grasp of the situation.
Allow me to raise a fairly innocuous point, since I find the opportunity too good to miss. I in fact sent a letter to the Commissioner of Official Languages at the beginning of the week, with a copy to Mr. Emery. I'm raising this matter especially in light of Mr. Ling's remarks and because of the museum's importance for children.
At the beginning of the week, I met a teacher from a school in my riding who told me that when his class visited the museum, the service in one of the two official languages left something to be desired. I'm not talking here about the language of work, although I expect that that also could be looked at. I hope that if that is indeed the case, the situation will be corrected. You will see my letter, and I do hope that someone follows up on it.
Because of the Museum's location in the National Capital and of the efforts made to reach a wider clientele, I think the policy according to which all services are to be offered in both official languages, even those of caterers, should be respected.
[English]
Mr. Ling: Thank you for the very important piece of advice, and this is certainly one of the major challenges I will undertake immediately.
Dr. Emery: I think it's important, though, to put it in context.
Our museum received an award last year from the official languages people. In that citation it remarked on the efforts we've made in that regard. I think, too - if I could call very briefly onMs Patten to talk about our policy in serving the public in both official languages - it's very fine.
Leslie.
Ms Leslie Patten (Vice-President, Public Programmes, Canadian Museum of Nature): Our policy -
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: A group of students from my riding went to the Museum and did not receive the service it had a right to expect. That is what I would like us to deal with; I'm sorry to say that the rest interests me very little.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Shepherd.
Mr. Shepherd: Thank you very much.
Dr. Emery, I'm reviewing this decision to build museum facilities in Aylmer. What process was undertaken to choose what appears to be a wetland to construct it on?
Dr. Emery: The decision to purchase the piece of land was made some years ago, and it was part of plan that the National Capital Commission had in terms of creating nodes in different parts of the national capital region, one of which was Aylmer. That property was purchased for a wide variety of purposes, one of which was to site our museum. The purchase was made in 1988, I think, and so we weren't really a part of that at all.
Mr. Shepherd: What I'm familiar with is zoning by-laws, and so forth. Was it an environmental protection area? Was it an environmentally sensitive area?
Dr. Emery: No, it's -
Mr. Shepherd: Is it?
.1250
Dr. Emery: It has been zoned industrial for a long time. It does have some wetland species on it, but we commissioned a very large assessment of the whole area. Actually we, the museum, discovered it might have some sensitive issues associated with it. We took our own people out there to look for it first. The assessment says there are indeed some species there that belong to wetlands. But the conclusion is that this is not a particularly sensitive or unique area at all.
Mr. Shepherd: This is now under construction; the plans are there to complete this. Is that what we're saying?
Dr. Emery: Yes. Well, it's more than plans now. The whole site that was purchased by Public Works is something like 75 hectares, so it's a very large site. The building comprises about 4% of that location. By virtue of our taking it, the plans, which were to develop the whole site with some 41 plots on it - so it would have been levelled - by virtue of our taking it, we have in fact protected that whole area. That was confirmed just last week. We now have agreement from Public Works that we can help to manage the rest of the area, which isn't currently ours. We have only 17 hectares of it. They've agreed we can help to manage the rest of it to protect that wetland.
As I say, it's not unique, but it's an interesting area.
Mr. Shepherd: In retrospect, was it a good decision?
Dr. Emery: I think it was a good decision, in the sense that although we didn't have any direct control over it, had we not been the party of choice, that would now be industrial park, not natural park.
Mr. Shepherd: I get back to the management issue. What's the state of morale in your organization today?
Dr. Emery: Currently I think it's very positive. Of course there are still some pockets of unease about the massive amounts of change, but in general the spirit, I think especially in some of the programmatic areas, is just remarkable. The successes we've had in public programming under Leslie Patten and the recent recharge of the research program under Patrick Colgan have been remarkable. It's just wonderful.
Mr. Shepherd: You talked about the necessity to bring in extra revenue. What are the results? How has that been going?
Dr. Emery: Our first effort was a huge success. As I mentioned earlier in response to the question, we brought in a lot of money. Apparently the times are a lot tougher, but we're still working very well at it.
We have two basic parts to our efforts. One is straight commerce: the store, parking, rental of spaces in the museum. That turns a small profit, but it turns a profit. Then we are building a combination of fund-raising and professional revenues by a wide variety of activities, including, for instance, working internationally with other countries to help them create national strategies for biodiversity. That also is showing a great deal of promise. It is not at present highly profitable, but with the investment we can see major profits in the future.
Another thing to remember is that in that particular aspect of the program, because there are opportunities to have the private sector pay directly for the kinds of work we want to do, you don't need to make a profit on it. Simply having our staff doing the work they want to do paid for by the private sector provides a very strong salary base -
Mr. Shepherd: Cost recovery.
When I look at your budgets from 1995-96 and 1996-97, basically it's relatively flat, a bit down. Within those figures, how much revenue would have been generated between the two years?
Dr. Emery: You mean summing the two years together?
Mr. Shepherd: No, I'm asking how much outside revenue would you have brought in from 1995-96, as opposed to in the 1996-97 fiscal year.
Dr. Emery: I'm not sure I have the question yet. In 1995-96 we brought in about $3 million. In 1996-97 we're projecting slightly less than that.
Mr. Shepherd: Less than that.
Dr. Emery: Yes.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Mr. Leroux.
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Ling, I know that you have not occupied your present position for very long, but I want to express my concern about this situation to you nevertheless, because we must look to the future. It is difficult to establish credibility insofar as the new orientation policies are concerned, and there have been reactions worldwide. I think it is time that we talked about this and that we get the facts straight.
.1255
Mr. Emery had started to talk about the ramifications caused by all of these changes. Changes are always accompanied by some measure of difficulty, but the Museum's scientific credibility was questioned following the change in policy by the new administration. An in-house task force was set up to assess the Museum's approach.
Mr. Ling, are you aware of the results of the work of this group?
As for the reactions these changes caused throughout the world, which did question the Museum's credibility, are you considering a strategy to set these doubts to rest?
[English]
Mr. Ling: To be honest with you, yes, I have gone through a lot of documents within the last ten days, and this is less than a quarter of the documents and meetings I've requested management to provide for me. But what I think is important is for me not simply to digest the documents but to be able to do two things.
One is communication. In other words, first of all we have to have the board of trustees fully aware of all the facts. So the first thing is knowledge. The second one is trust. I want to make sure there is enough of an element of trust between management and the governing body, which is the board of trustees - not just myself, because I'm just part of the board. Decisions have to be made by the board. If there are problems, how to correct the problems has to be the board's decision. That means I shouldn't be just the one feeding decisions to the board. But I want to facilitate that process within a very, very short time.
We have a board meeting coming up this coming June. I don't have too much time to do that. But I will endeavour to get the facts and build this level of trust, particularly with personnel and the general public.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: What is your intention with regard to the Museum's international scientific credibility?
[English]
Mr. Ling: It would be nice if we could do all things within a short period. I think one of my challenges is to set priorities. For each priority a timeframe should be attached to that.
When I spoke about consolidation, I'm basically talking about not just sitting still. Sometimes you even have to take half a step back in order to move two steps forward.
I want to be able to work closely with the board so within a relatively short period - and I'm talking about the next couple of months, if possible - we will basically re-examine ourselves as a museum, as an important entity of the nation, because in order to go out internationally we have to be prepared. It's important that we be prepared to do that.
It's important that certain linkages are already established with other parts of the world. But there may be others that still have not been contacted, and those might also be very important links to our country, whether they are French-speaking countries or English-speaking countries or countries that speak other languages. We have to relate our efforts in terms of priority. To me that international linkage is important - but not just linkage. It's the way people see us.
When we talk about community programming, we must not leave out research, because this is an important element in my mind: the sphere of excellence in research as well. So we have to make vey sound decisions and sound choices.
.1300
Thank you.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: In conclusion, Mr. Ling, I thank you for having shared your culture with us and having explained the sense of the word ``crisis''.
I have good reasons to hope that the situation will clear up and that it will be possible in the future to take far-reaching corrective actions to redirect matters properly.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Ling, I would like to thank you very much - both you and your colleagues - and I wish you a very successful mandate.
Mr. Ling: Thank you.
The Chairman: If I may take two minutes of my time to address you and Dr. Emery and your colleagues, and do so in the most objective manner possible, I think the questions asked byMr. Leroux and the comments made by my colleague Mr. Shepherd cannot be underestimated. I want to say as objectively as I can that the other day at the biodiversity round table, I actually underlined some of the positive programs that the Museum of Nature carries out. I say this to show you that these comments are not purely negative, that I understand the positive side of the work of the museum and I acknowledge it.
At the same time, I think it's fair to say that in the public mind there is a very strong perception touching the credibility of the museum as a public instrument. It cannot be ignored. The other day, when the opening of the biodiversity secretariat took place, I attended various functions. People came to me privately, knowing that I am the chairman of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, to complain about the museum, to complain about many of the statements such as those that Mr. Leroux has made.
Certainly, there's a very strong perception amongst environmentalists that the move to Aylmer was a total disaster in the sense of the symbolic nature of it, first of all - a Museum of Nature that put itself right in the midst of a habitat in which we try to protect species. But I'm just telling you what the message is out there, and it mustn't be ignored.
At the time, when the new Minister of Heritage stopped the project for a while, there was a question put to me about whether or not there was a concerted effort made to really fill in the site, the foundations, as fast as possible so that it would become irreversible. I don't know what the case is, but I'm just telling you there is a lot of rumour out there, there's a lot of perception that is negative, and I think it would be fair to realize it is there. I say this as objectively as possible, as somebody who has praised many of the initiatives of the museum.
When we make comments from this platform, I think they're not purely meant to be government in a position of posturing. I think we're just reflecting some comments we hear ourselves from the public, and I say them as somebody who's a friend of our institutions such as the Museum of Nature.
This said, I would like to thank all of you very much for your appearance here and to wish you especially, Mr. Ling, a very successful mandate. Thank you.
[Translation]
The Chairman: I must ask you to stay for a few seconds to settle something.
Mr. Leroux: Yes.
[English]
The Chairman: There's just one small item.
[Translation]
Next Tuesday, May 14, we shall be studying Bill C-216.
[English]
That's the private member's bill from Mr. Gallaway. We had provided for an institution to be heard on May 16. We're going to try to move it forward so that we can concentrate two days forMr. Gallaway to get his bill out of the way.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Yes, I fully agree.
The Chairman: We have obtained the consent of the House.
.1305
[English]
Is that acceptable to you?
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, I might have a witness to propose during our study of that matter. In the procedure, we will have to follow...
The Chairman: On that, I would ask you to contact... We are going to attempt to conclude our study in two days. If we hear your witness, we would be hearing three witnesses Tuesday and three witnesses Thursday. There are only two paragraphs. Do we agree on this?
We will be doing this on May 14 and 16. We could conclude on the 16 and report to the House.
As for the motion you wanted to talk about, Mr. Bélanger, I think we agreed to hear it next Tuesday.
Mr. Leroux: Quite so. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman: Thank you very much.
The meeting stands adjourned.