[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Tuesday, March 19, 1996
.1031 
[Translation]
The Chairman: Since it is 10:30, we will begin. I thank you all for being here on time. Since this is the first working session of the committee, I would ask you all to introduce yourselves so that we can all know who's here.
I must point out that two Opposition members are replacing permanent members of the committee: Mr. Monte Solberg is replacing Mr. Jim Abbott of the Reform Party, and Mr. de Savoye of the Bloc Québécois is replacing the vice-chairman, Mr. Gaston Leroux.
I'd like to begin by asking Ms Paradis to introduce herself and we will then go around to introduce the members.
Ms Marie Louise Paradis (Procedural Clerk): My name is Marie Louise Paradis and this morning I'm replacing the regular clerk of this committee. I'm also a committee clerk.
The Chairman: My name is Clifford Lincoln, I'm the Member of Parliament for Lachine - Lac-Saint-Louis and Chairman of this committee.
Mr. René Lemieux (Researcher for the Committee): My name is René Lemieux and I'm the researcher of this committee. I'm from the Library of Parliament.
[English]
Ms Phinney (Hamilton Mountain): I'm Beth Phinney, member for Hamilton Mountain, and I'm vice-chair for the government side.
[Translation]
Mr. Bélanger (Ottawa - Vanier): My name is Mauril Bélanger and I'm the Member of Parliament for Ottawa - Vanier. I did not look for someone to replace me here this morning.
Mr. Arseneault (Restigouche - Chaleur): My name is Guy Arseneault and I'm the Parliamentary Secretary of the Minister.
[English]
Mr. Peric (Cambridge): I'm Janko Peric, people's servant for Cambridge.
[Translation]
Mr. Michel Desjardins (Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Management, Department of Canadian Heritage): Michel Desjardins, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister for Strategic Management.
[English]
Mr. Victor Rabinovitch (Assistant Deputy Minister, Cultural Development and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage): I'm Victor Rabinovitch, assistant deputy minister for cultural development and heritage.
Mr. Thomas Lee (Assistant Deputy Minister, Parks Canada, Department of Canadian Heritage): I'm Tom Lee, assistant deputy minister, Parks Canada.
[Translation]
Ms Suzanne Hurtubise (Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage): Suzanne Hurtubise, Deputy Minister of the Department of Canadian Heritage.
Mr. Roger Collet (Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship and Canadian Identity, Department of Canadian Heritage): Roger Collet, Assistant Deputy Minister for Citizenship and Canadian Identity.
[English]
Mr. Peter Homolus (Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Canadian Heritage): I'm Peter Homolus, acting assistant deputy minister of corporate services.
Mr. Solberg (Medicine Hat): I'm Monte Solberg, MP for Medicine Hat.
[Translation]
Mr. de Savoye (Portneuf): Pierre de Savoye, Member of Parliament for Portneuf.
The Chairman: We will therefore open today's meeting, and our objective is to have a general overview of the department. We're also fortunate to have with us Jack Anawak, Member of Parliament and member of the government delegation.
The purpose of this initial meeting is to give us an overview of the department in general. We are very pleased to have with us the officials of the department, including the Deputy Minister, Ms Suzanne Hurtubise.
[English]
We are really happy to have the deputy minister herself with us, and also the key assistant deputy ministers in the ministry.
I'll turn the floor to you, Madame Hurtubise.
Ms Hurtubise: Merci, monsieur le président. Thank you very much, Mr. Lincoln.
As Mr. Lincoln just said, this is a first meeting with the department. We're pleased, in fact, that you have all the assistant deputy ministers here today.
[Translation]
With your permission, we would like to begin by presenting a short video that will give you a brief overview of the department and I will then make a presentation. Mr. Lincoln, I think that some questions may be asked after this presentation. But you have also asked some assistant deputy ministers to come and discuss their particular sector with you. Therefore, today I will give you a general overview.
The Chairman: All right.
.1035
[English]
[Video Presentation]
[Translation]
Ms Hurtubise: We have it in French, Mr. Lincoln. Would you like to take four minutes to hear it?
The Chairman: Yes.
[Video Presentation]
.1040
[English]
Ms Hurtubise: Merci beaucoup. I'll just let you know that Air Canada is now showing this video on their incoming flights from Japan. In fact, this is an incredibly helpful tool to stimulate jobs and growth through our tourism industry in Canada. It is known and shown worldwide.
[Translation]
I would be pleased to send a copy of this video to all members of the committee if you so wish, Mr. Chairman.
We shall now go on to our presentation.
[English]
The Canadian Heritage portfolio was created - it's a very recent portfolio - on June 25, 1993, through the amalgamation of functions, agencies and crown corporations from five departments. They were the Department of the Environment, the Secretary of State, Communications, National Health and Welfare, and Multiculturalism and Citizenship.
[Translation]
In June 1995, the Department of Canadian Heritage Act received Royal Assent. This Act should be promulgated soon, as early as this spring I hope, once the Department of Public Works and Government Services Act has been proclaimed.
The central administration of the department is made up of five sectors, including three major sectors that develop federal policy in their respective spheres, namely: Citizenship and the Canadian Identity Program, for which Mr. Collet is the Assistant Deputy Minister; Cultural Development and Heritage, which is Mr. Victor Rabinovitch's sector; and Parks Canada, which is Mr. Lee's sector.
We also have Corporate Services, which Mr. Peter Homolus is representing today, and Strategic Management, a new sector represented by Michel Desjardins.
Each part of the portfolio contributes to Canadian identity and in this department, we have the great honour of not only working in bureaucracy but contributing every day and in everything we do to Canadian identity.
It is with this objective in mind that we promote our pride in Canada. All sectors encourage participation and contribution to the life of Canadian society. We support Canadian means of expression and access to our common spaces. We contribute to Canada's economic growth and prosperity and we protect Canada's heritage.
[English]
In support of the government's overall agenda, we help Canadians express their pride in Canada, work to preserve our cultural and national heritage by making it accessible to Canadians and to others, and help prepare Canadians to exploit the opportunities presented by an information-based economy.
An important point that is often overlooked in our sectors is that the arts and culture, outdoor recreation, and sports sectors together contribute $24 billion annually to Canada's direct GDP. That's 3% of GDP. We can compare this favourably with the transportation sector, which contributes $25 billion. To compare, the agricultural sector contributes $11 billion.
.1045
These heritage sectors also contribute over 750,000 direct jobs to the economy, over 6% of total employment in the Canadian economy. In addition, these sectors contribute $11 billion in indirect GDP.
Not to be overlooked is the contribution these sectors make to the $48 billion tourism industry, which represents 1 million jobs in Canada. I note with some pride that two-thirds of Canada's major tourism attractions - that's a three-star rating in the Michelin guide - are owned and operated or supported by the Department of Canadian Heritage.
We have a number of strategic objectives.
The first is enhancing pride in Canada. We do that in a number of ways. We try to deepen the understanding of Canada and Canadians. We try to create opportunities for Canadians to communicate with each other. We enhance opportunities for Canadians to value our linguistic duality as a defining element of Canadian identity. And we promote the excellence and celebrate the achievement of sport as a fundamental characteristic of our Canadian expression.
We also encourage the participation and the contribution to Canadian society. We try to build and help Canadians build a cohesive society based on identity, civic participation and social justice as a means to enhance mainstreaming and to strengthen the bonds of mutual trust and responsibility.
We also work at ensuring the vitality of the official language communities across the country as a means to encourage the learning and use of English and French in Canada. We promote full and equal participation in amateur sport as a key element in social development and the building of our country.
Our third strategic objective is ensuring access to Canadian voices and Canadian spaces, and it's not as esoteric as it may sound. We try to ensure quality Canadian content and a space for Canadian choices and voices in broadcasting, be it television, radio or soon satellite, and on the information highway. We try to establish a fair balance between the rights of creators, distributors and consumers in this new communications environment. We try to strengthen the ability of cultural industries to develop, use and market Canadian products, and we encourage the exploration of new technologies in the arts and in communications.
The next strategic objective is our contribution to Canada's economic growth and prosperity. I've already focused on that. We do try to sustain a competitive position for Canada's cultural industries, and we encourage investment throughout our sectors.
Last but not least is protecting Canada's heritage. We try to advance the government's agenda for new national parks and national historic sites and conserve, protect and present nationally significant natural and cultural heritage.
[Translation]
There are several major accomplishments of this portfolio that you are familiar with: the December 15, 1995 Royal Assent of the Income Tax Act to impose an excise tax on split-run magazines; the tabling of the ways and means motion in 1995 to replace the amortization deduction by a tax credit for the production of Canadian films; the announcement that was already made in March 1995 of a 25% increase in monthly athletes' stipends.
In the past, we've have the reinstatement of the Court Challenges Program; the Japanese Canadian Redress Program; the commemoration of the 30th anniversary of the Canada flag and the declaration of Canada Flag Day, last month; intergovernmental support for the implementation of Sections 41 and 42 of the Official Languages Act; the signing of the Canada-community accords with official language minority communities in all provinces; the conclusion of official languages minority school management agreements with provinces; the signature of a memorandum of understanding with the province of British Columbia concerning the creation of a national park in the Gulf Islands; last summer's celebration of Louisbourg '95 to mark the 265th anniversary of the foundation of this fortress; and the designation of the Old Town of Lunenburg and Waterton Lakes National Park as World Heritage sites last December.
.1050
[English]
As you can see from this, it is a broad, diverse and wide portfolio that covers many sectors of the economy and many sectors touching Canadians and the country from coast to coast to coast.
Toward 2000 and beyond, our strategic objectives are: to ensure the presence of Canadian culture in an era of globalization; to increase the opportunity for Canadians to learn and understand more about their country and each other; to involve Canadians in building this rich country to celebrate and recognize our achievements, national symbols and our rich and diverse heritage; and to foster social justice in Canadian society so that everyone is able to participate and contribute fully.
The next slide shows you the budget of the department and of the portfolio. As you can see, the numbers reflect a significant decrease that virtually all departments and portfolios have known over the past few years in order to contribute to the government's deficit reduction. Even with significant downsizing, in 1997-98 the portfolio will still be at $2.2 billion. That's a very significant contribution.
The next slide shows you the organizational chart of the department. I've already introduced my colleagues, the ADMs. I will flag this, because some of you will be familiar with our regional organization. We have regional executive directors in Halifax to represent the Atlantic region,
[Translation]
in Montreal to represent Quebec, in Toronto for Ontario, in Winnipeg for the Prairies and the North West Territories, in Calgary for Alberta and in Vancouver for the Pacific and the Yukon.
[English]
Some of you in fact may already be familiar with my colleagues who spend most of their time in the regions.
[Translation]
We have approximately 6 000 employees,
[English]
of which about 1,300 work in seasonal positions, mostly in our parks and heritage sites. In addition to the department, there are 14 agencies and crown corporations that function at arm's length from the government,
[Translation]
for example, the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission, the CRTC, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Telefilm, the National Film Board, the National Capital Commission, our four museums, etc. The minister is also responsible for Status of Women Canada, and as you know, the Secretary of State, Dr. Hedy Fry, has delegated responsibility for Status of Women Canada.
[English]
I will now briefly pass over each of the four main sectors here. The cultural development and heritage sector has four principal branches: broadcasting, cultural industries, arts policy, and heritage. I certainly didn't understand the meaning of what heritage meant, but it means museums, museum policy and everything attached to that.
In addition, there are two special operating agencies in the sector: the Canadian Conservation Institute and the Canadian Heritage Information Network. This sector designs policies and programs related to broadcasting, film, video, sound recording, multimedia, publishing, copyright, museums, cultural heritage, and the performing, literary and visual arts.
Of the jobs I mentioned earlier, this sector contributes some 460,000 jobs to the Canadian economy. The sector's responsible for a broad range of policy and program instruments to support these sectors, such as: legislation, for example, the Broadcasting Act and the Copyright Act; tax incentives, such as the film tax credit; foreign investment guidelines to encourage Canadian ownership in culturally sensitive industries; regulations, such as those the CRTC requires on Canadian content; and financial support, which is in some cases direct, as through Telefilm Canada or the Canada Council.
.1055
In addition there are the two special operating agencies. CHIN is an acknowledged world leader in the development of the management of electronic museum information. In fact, Canada, through CHIN, is the only nation with a computerized national inventory of our museum collections, representing some 25 million objects and over 50,000 archaeological sites.
For its part, the Canadian Conservation Institute, the other SOA in this sector, is one of the best research groups in the world looking into problems of deterioration and stabilization of museum artifacts.
[Translation]
The next sector is that of Mr. Collet.
[English]
The Chairman: What is the portion of the budget for this section, of the $2.2 billion, approximately?
Ms Hurtubise: Do you have that information, Peter?
Victor, do you know offhand?
Mr. Homolus: No, because it's together with the corporate identity.
The Chairman: Just roughly. We can pick it up after.
Ms Hurtubise: If you include all the agencies, such as CBC, etc., it's about $1.4 billion to $1.5 billion of the $2.2 billion, CBC being the largest part of that. In 1997-98 it will be about $900 million for CBC. We can certainly provide you with a more detailed breakdown.
The next sector is
[Translation]
Citizenship and Canadian Identity Program. I'm going through all these sectors very quickly because the assistant deputy ministers can make a more in-depth presentation. Today I simply want to give you an overview of the department.
The Citizenship and Canadian Identity Program sector strives to promote Canadian identity, the participation of citizens, multiculturalism, official languages and amateur sport.
The Citizen's Participation and Multiculturalism Branch fosters Canadian identity and encourages participation by all members of society. It includes four programs: Canadian Identity, Aboriginal Citizens, Human Rights and Multiculturalism.
The programs for human rights, support for volunteer organizations, youth participation, Canadian studies and the promotion of Canadian symbols and ceremonial promote dynamic civic participation. The Multiculturalism Program contributes to the integration and participation by Canadians of all origins in the life of our country and fosters racial harmony and mutual respect.
The Official Languages Support Branch includes programs for official language minority community development assistance and the promotion of linguistic duality.
To support the unique contribution of sports to society, Sports Canada gives priority to high calibre athletes if they pursue excellence in interprovincial and international forums. I believe that Mr. Collet will appear before your committee on March 28 - I think that's already been planned - to provide you with further information about his sector. But he is here today to answer your preliminary questions.
The next major sector is parks. Parks Canada, Canada's largest conservation organization, is viewed as a world leader in conservation and in the development of natural and cultural heritage. Since 1885, when the first national park was established in Banff, 36 national parks and 3 national marine conservation areas have been created. Moreover, more than 750 national historic sites have been designated throughout the country, of which 131 are managed directly by Parks Canada. Together, these sites attract more than 25 million visitors annually.
Parks Canada wants to expand its national parks network to include each of Canada's 39 natural regions and it also wants to expand its commemorative network of national historic sites. Right now, 22 of the 39 natural regions are represented. You must understand that it is a major feat for Parks Canada to expand the parks and sites networks while at the same time curtailing costs to contribute to deficit reduction. Parks Canada drew up its business plan with that in mind, so that it could protect the parks and sites' ecological and commemorative value as well as provide client services.
.1100
As you know, in the 1996 budget, the government announced that Parks Canada will become a designated service organization. It will not become a Crown corporation, nor a special operating agency, but rather a new type of structure that will give Parks Canada greater flexibility to implement an innovative operating system. Parks Canada will have to set up a new structure. Mr. Thomas Lee will appear before your committee on March 21 and can fill you in on all the details.
In sum, the recently created strategic management sector will help us implement a more strategic and coordinated operating system, which in turn will lead to better portfolio management with a more consistent policy and planning framework. This area includes strategic planning and coordinating of policies, intergovernmental and international business communications as well as the departmental review.
[English]
The corporate services sector, for its part, is responsible for financial management, information management, administrative services, as well as the correspondence and liaison units. In addition, two other groups report directly to me. They are the human resources branch and legal services.
To conclude this presentation, let me briefly flag some upcoming issues. The first is the Copyright Act. As you know, the minister has been working actively with the cultural community and other key stakeholders to finalize a package of amendments. She expects to table the legislation this spring.
The Department of Canadian Heritage has also been working for some time now on the modernization of the National Parks Act to ensure it's an effective tool to manage and protect our national parks and national historic sites.
With respect to the information highway, it is expected that a policy framework for communications in the context of this new information society will be developed to provide for increased competition, choice and Canadian content. In this area, we are working with our colleagues in the Department of Industry.
As a result of the changes announced in the budget, we will expect Parks Canada to submit a proposed act to create its new alternative service delivery agency. I am hoping this legislation will be ready for consideration by Parliament in the fall.
This is the last thing on our list of issues. As you know, the minister announced on February 26, 1996, that she will be initiating a review of the CRTC to ensure that we have the appropriate regulatory tools to meet the challenges of the new information age.
[Translation]
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my brief overview of our department and portfolio.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Ms. Hurtubise. We can now move on to the different sectors and to the assistant-deputy ministers. Then, if there is any time left, we will move on to questions. Will we follow the order suggested by yourself and Mr. Desjardins, or would you like to proceed in a different order?
Ms. Hurtubise: As you wish. I have thought of questions the members might ask and I would like to say that our assistant-deputy ministers will be back here this week or the next, but you can follow whichever order you like.
The Chairman: I suggest that they give us a brief description of their work, and then we will move on to questions.
Ms. Hurtubise: Fine.
[English]
Mrs. Phinney.
Ms Phinney: Mr. Chairman, for those of us who are new on the committee, could we have the notes of the deputy minister? I know we have them in brief here, but I couldn't catch everything she was saying. There is a lot that is not here.
Ms Hurtubise: Yes, absolutely. I basically rewrote these myself this morning. You will have them by the end of today. They are not ready because I do a lot of my own scribbling.
The Chairman: I know you're all coming back and we don't want to reinvent the wheel, but maybe we could have a brief word from your departments before we go on to questions.
Mr. Solberg.
Mr. Solberg: Mr. Lincoln, because I have to leave early, I wonder if it would be possible to have just a couple of quick questions.
The Chairman: By all means.
Mr. Solberg: I appreciate that. I apologize to the various guests here today for having to leave early, but I wonder if I could take up your time just for a second to ask a very general question. Perhaps I'll just ask the one question.
Actually, my colleague, for whom I'm sitting in, has some questions for Mr. Lee. They're fairly detailed, and it may take more than the time we have here to get into them.
The Chairman: Mr. Lee's going to be here afterwards, so there's lots of time for questions.
.1105
Mr. Solberg: My overall question is one I've posed before. Because the department is cutting back, some people might be under the impression that the cultural industries are in trouble in the country, but as you pointed out, the cultural industries are actually really growing. In fact, it's a GDP of somewhere around $24 billion. It's not just the federal government that's cutting back; it's also the provinces and the municipalities.
I guess the point I'm making is this. Does it strike you as ironic perhaps that while we're cutting back, the private sector or individual culture - I don't know how else to word it - is growing and is indeed very strong? Here is what I'm leading to. Doesn't it cause you to wonder just what the impact is of the Department of Canadian Heritage when the private sector or individuals are really doing their job already to keep the cultural industry growing in Canada?
Ms Hurtubise: I would start by saying, Mr. Solberg, that I don't think we have felt the full impact of all the reductions of municipal, provincial and federal governments yet in the sector. In some cases it's fairly recent. In other cases it's been going on for a number of years. It's true that we all have to cut back, and we're supportive of that objective.
I think it's also true to say that without some of the sector's expenditures, we wouldn't have some things. Part of the sector's expenditures are the expenditures on the CBC. I would argue that without the expenditures of this portfolio, there would be no national public broadcaster in this country. So I think that's an important consideration.
The sector also goes beyond grants and contributions. It does a lot of work on the legislative and regulatory side, which I think is important as well for the growth of the sector.
But I would also say that I'm pleased to see that the sector is growing. I think that's as a result of some of the partnerships we've been able to establish with other levels of government and with the private sector. You maximize the reduced dollars to help and encourage the sector to grow.
Mr. Solberg: I'd like to follow up very briefly on that. There are a lot of things I'd like to get into, but you mentioned the CBC. That's something, of course, that a lot of people discuss.
My concern is that we've never had a discussion in this committee, as far as I can remember or recall, certainly not a national discussion, about what you suggest, which is that the CBC can only exist if the federal government kicks in a bunch of money and that public broadcasting could only exist if we kick in a bunch of money. That's a concern I have, because I don't think we've really examined that.
I don't think we've taken into account the millions of dollars that Canadians spend propping up national public radio. There's the PBS in the United States. We haven't considered the possibility of having the public fund this directly, as is done in the United States, to use just one example.
I'm wondering if your department would be willing to entertain that type of discussion.
Ms Hurtubise: I think this committee has in fact, in a previous incarnation, Mr. Chairman, looked at a lot of these issues. In fact, there is a report of this parliamentary committee that deals with some of these issues and that looks at alternative sources for public broadcasting, but any work this committee would like to do we will obviously study with pleasure.
The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Solberg.
Mr. Solberg: Thank you.
The Chairman: Ms Hurtubise, before we ask your colleagues to speak to us, I would make this suggestion. They're going to be appearing and giving us specifics of their various responsibilities, so we'll have lots of time to question them specifically.
I was wondering if, from their standpoint and your standpoint, you could just give us more details about the large issues that are going to come before us, because this I think is where the committee will get involved.
In other words, you have detailed five different issues. First, I imagine the copyright legislation will be the first one to come before us. The second one will be the updating of the law on national parks, etc.
.1110
So five very important issues are going to be coming before us. Perhaps you and the assistant deputy ministers could concentrate on those to tell us how you see the timetable for the breadth of work that will be involved so that perhaps members of the committee will be able to get a handle on how much time to devote to it in the future.
For example, we have been thinking that after we have reviewed the work of the committee, and after the Easter break, it would seem to us that possibly the copyright legislation will come before the House around then; therefore, we should keep the rest of the time before the end of the session for the copyright law.
It might be nice to know, for instance, when you feel the national parks legislation will come up, this type of thing, so that the members could have a very good idea of what's coming up.
Ms Hurtubise: We can certainly do that, and we can take them one by one, but I would simply say that we have to respect cabinet confidences. Not all these matters have been before cabinet. We can give you a general view of what we think the timing will be.
[Translation]
Of course it is subject to ministerial and Cabinet approval.
[English]
Victor, do you want to say a few words about, one, the breadth of the reform of the copyright amendments? I think that, in and of itself, is a huge challenge for all of us.
We'll take them one by one, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: I would just say that I don't know about the members of the Bloc or Reform, but certainly on our side, in our caucuses and so on, we've had briefings on this. I'm sure...maybe the opposition is not...but I don't know to what extent they are aware of the amendments.
Ms Hurtubise: I also have to respect cabinet confidences at this time on some decisions that are not yet taken.
The Chairman: Of course; that's understood.
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Chairman, with all due respect, I think the intent of the meeting itself was for general briefing. We have to be careful, because when we speak about legislation we're talking more about political aspects of the department. I think the minister would be more in a position to answer in terms of deadlines and specifics and when she would expect to present that. I think we should be careful not to put the officials in an awkward position.
The minister is available to come to committee whenever the committee requests, and would be available to answer some of those questions, but I think we should recall that the director generals and the deputy ministers are coming and will be available to give us some very detailed briefings.
With that, I suspect we should stick to the general themes of today.
The Chairman: I appreciate this. I appreciate it very much. I don't want to put anybody on the spot, naturally, but it seems to me that if we could just get a general idea of the time this kind of stuff would take, I think it really would be helpful to us.
[Translation]
Mr. de Savoye: If we were to have a question period, my first question would be precisely on that topic. Let me first give you some information I find quite important and you can see whether you can answer my question.
On the last page of your brief, on page 24, you describe some upcoming issues this committee will be dealing with in the coming weeks and months. Could you give us a key point for each of those issues, the possible options and alignments, without, of course, infringing on the department's flexibility. What activities do you have planned and do you have an approximate timetable for them? I understand it is difficult to get into all that, but it would give the committee some idea of what to expect and when.
Finally, I would like to focus on the interaction between your department and Industry Canada. What will be your major role? What will Industry Canada's major function be? If we know that, we will have a better understanding of the situation, and will be better able to communicate, if need be, with the Industry committee, which will no doubt also be asked to study these same issues from a different perspective.
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[English]
Ms Hurtubise: Perhaps I will ask Victor to talk a bit about copyright,
[Translation]
as well as on stakes and major issues, because it is quite a complex subject. I think we can start answering your question, Mr. de Savoye.
Mr. de Savoye: Thank you, Ms. Hurtubise.
[English]
Mr. Rabinovitch: I'll start, Mr. Chairman, by confirming for you that our understanding is that legislation on copyright will be introduced after the Easter break. We don't know exactly when, but certainly officials have been working on the drafting of legislation, subject to cabinet instructions, over a period of time. The work is really coming to the point where it should soon be able to be introduced.
In December 1994, the Minister of Industry and the then Minister of Heritage announced the broad outline of what phase two, as it is called, of the copyright legislation would cover. Phase one took place in the late 1980s. Phase two is what is currently being drafted. There has been, in fact, some initial discussion about a phase three, which would in the future deal with problems raised through electronic and digital transmission. At this stage, however, we're concentrating on phase two.
Phase two has a number of significant themes to it. One theme is the issue of neighbouring rights, or
[Translation]
"les droits voisins", as they are called in French.
[English]
but what is really increasingly better known by the concept of recording artists' and producers' rights, which is probably an easier way of understanding what that means.
A second area in phase two will affect private copying or private taping of recorded materials. It will also deal with issues of civil liability and civil recourse, recourse through court action, where individuals may feel that their rights have been infringed upon through the actions of others.
There will also be a number of exceptions, or categories of exceptions, under the proposed legislation.
[Translation]
You asked about the issues. As usual, English makes a clear distinction between copyright legislation and the right to copy, whereas the French term "droit d'auteur" refers to the rights of the producers or creators of the thing someone else wants to copy. The biggest challenge is always to find a balance between the rights of the producers and creators and those who want to use the product.
We work closely and regularly with our colleagues at Industry Canada. The Minister of Industry is the one responsible for the implementation of the Copyright Act, but it is the Minister of Canadian Heritage Department who is responsible for putting forward policies on producing and the authors themselves.
[English]
So there is a balance that must be found between users' rights and producers' rights, and as well, between two different departments and two different ministers. It is a balance, I'm glad to say, that in administrative terms we're not finding difficult to achieve. We have been working hard at it. I believe the legislation, when it is finalized in draft form for tabling, will be able to demonstrate that this balance has been sought and found.
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The Chairman: Mr. Peric.
Mr. Peric: Mr. Chairman, I have one short question for Mr. Rabinovitch.
When you talk about rights, do you include the performers among the producers, or are you talking about producers only?
Mr. Rabinovitch: Of course the legislation will have to detail all of that. The short answer is yes, they are both included.
The Chairman: Ms Hurtubise.
Ms Hurtubise: Mr. Chairman, I would ask Tom Lee to talk to you about the National Parks Act and the other parks initiatives.
Mr. Lee: Mr. Chairman, I don't think the legislation Parks Canada will be dealing with as it takes form contains all of the intrigue my colleague has on the copyright side. He has a terrific intellectual challenge, and obviously a political challenge, for everybody.
Mr. Rabinovitch: Copyright is a part of the parks business plan.
Mr. Lee: I will talk to three items.
In her presentation the deputy gave indication of the National Parks Act and agency. As we previously indicated to the committee, there is another piece of legislation expected to come within the year, and that is the legislation required to create jointly with Quebec the Saguenay Marine Park. I will go through the three items.
The National Parks Act - and I think the chairman, in his previous careers, became quite familiar with the National Parks Act and has made contributions to it in the past - is a very detailed act. It's an operating act containing all of the direction our people need to carry out their day-to-day work. The National Parks Act deals with the purpose of national parks, down to the powers of a superintendent in carrying out the day-to-day activities in a park.
The National Parks Act being brought forth is actually best described as an update. No major new direction is expected to be contained in the act, but it requires updating for a number of reasons.
First, some aspects of the act are administratively difficult and unnecessarily bureaucratic. The best example is that if we bought a farm to add to Grasslands National Parks a full legislative amendment would be required to make it part of the park. What we will be proposing are some simplified measures for carrying out what is really quite a routine business transaction; i.e., we have authority to establish a national park, we have acquired a piece of land for the national park, and it has to be added to the park. That doesn't require the full attention of Parliament. We would be proposing various amendments of this type.
The second element of the changes being brought forth is in fact to establish parks that have been announced but not yet established. Some of those go back quite a way. The Pacific Rim National Park, for example, has not yet been formally established, and the reason is that we have been acquiring land over the years to create the park. We now have the park and manage it as a park, but we chose not to bring forth legislative changes every year. We waited to bring forth one change when we had most of the park there. So the act will formally establish a number of parks that have been announced and do exist.
The second piece of legislation is the Saguenay Marine Park. This is a bit unusual in that the establishment of this park will require joint legislative action by the Province of Quebec and the federal government, because it's a cooperative national marine protection area, part of it being established under federal jurisdiction, specifically the marine component, and part of it being established pursuant to the Quebec government's rights and objectives in regard to terrestrial conservation, the land component.
.1125
So what we have is a park that contains a marine aquatic protection objective and a terrestrial, or land, protection objective, the first one being a federal objective but complementary to the Quebec objective relating to land conservation.
So in the course of the year, both governments would intend to produce their necessary legislative packages. We're working cooperatively on these, obviously. There are certain parallel aspects to the legislation.
The current state of this is that about a month ago, the two governments announced and released the management plan for the area. That plan was developed with public consultation and reflects the direction the two governments intend to take with regard to their respective, and cooperative management, roles in the park.
The legislation itself, as the deputy said, is still subject to cabinet direction, so it's in a state of drafting and preparation at this stage.
The third legislative item, the one that was announced in the budget, would be the legislation required to create Parks Canada as an agency. As our deputy minister has indicated, this will be somewhat of a novel type of legislation in the sense that it's not an agency intended in the traditional sense. What is really being attempted to achieve here is the opportunity to deliver the parks program again in the most simple and efficient manner possible at the least cost to the government and at the best quality of service to the public.
That involves changes that could take place that would perhaps change our structure, i.e., make it less layered, less bureaucratic, and more direct in terms of delivery. It would be expected to involve changes that would facilitate a direction already approved, one we already have, which is the retention of our fees for reinvestment into parks. Under the current system there are complexities involved in this that are not necessary. So we have strived to get rid of complications here.
Third, one would expect to try to achieve some administrative efficiencies. Again, these largely are related to internal, standard government bureaucratic processes and the routes one must go through to achieve a very simple thing, such as issuance of a $6,000 contract with somebody in a remote national park. Somehow, in order to achieve that, we currently have to go through.... Well, it arrives on my desk.
Ms Hurtubise: It goes straight to mine sometimes.
Mr. Lee: Sometimes it goes to the deputy's desk and sometimes the minister's, and so on.
Ms Hurtubise: Often it goes all the way up to the Treasury Board ministers, we should add. This is quite a complex procedure.
Mr. Lee: So the objective of the agency, very fundamentally, is to simplify, to get rid of unnecessary processes, to become - my deputy knows I use these words - ``a little bit more nimble'', i.e., the ability to get on and do the job, to do it quickly. It's not a big issue. Just get at it and deliver the service.
Mr. Chairman, those are the three general areas in which we would be dealing with the committee in a legislative fashion within the coming year.
The deputy indicated in timing, the agency...very likely the fall. The National Parks Act: our work is complete on that, so it would be up to cabinet to determine whether it wished to proceed, and if it was the time to proceed. That is an item that could come earlier rather than later, possibly this spring.
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The Saguenay one, I would suspect - because again, we have to work parallel with Quebec - could be spring or fall, but more possibly the latter.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Ms. Hurtubise.
Ms. Hurtubise: If I may,
[English]
I had outlined that these were some upcoming issues. I may ask Roger Collet to spend perhaps two minutes. None of his issues are flagged here. This would be just to let us know if some key issues have been missed.
Mr. Collet: After my two colleagues, Mr. Chairman, we're the sleeper sector. We're very discreet.
One of the areas we're involved in is, of course, Canadian identity and the promotion of Canadian identity, which starts all the way from Canadian symbols. Our minister has recently announced the project of a million flags from now until February 15 of next year - all symbols of Canada.
As well, we're establishing the parameters to establish new partnerships with the private sector, with different semi-public and public organizations across the country to promote Canadian identity in their regular activities as well as to establish and develop new products that express Canadian identity, such as some of the developments in the area of technology. Using some of the information we have in the Canadian studies bank, we use modern technology to communicate to Canadians.
[Translation]
We also have "Celebrate Canada's Heritage", a celebration organized by groups of Canadian citizens throughout the country, in different towns in each province. As announced by our minister, we are trying to extend the celebration by one week. The celebrations would therefore last eight days. There would be activities prior to and after July 1st so that young Canadians, seniors and workers could celebrate Canada.
Because of budget cuts in the past few years, our youth programs are designed primarily to encourage them to exchange their knowledge of their country and to participate in our political system, through a program called Forum for Young Canadians, which is held every year at the Terry Fox Centre, here in Ottawa, from January until the end of April.
[English]
On multiculturalism, the previous minister had asked us to review the multiculturalism programs as presented last year to this committee. The minister soon will be in a position to present the results of the review and to redefine the program in a way that hopefully will listen to some of the views expressed in this committee - building our programs more in line with appreciation for diversity but also an emphasis, as the deputy has indicated, on building a cohesive society, and therefore building the whole area of multiculturalism, official languages, la dualité linguistique, native citizens' programs, into an orientation toward the expression, and as an objective, of Canadian identity. So this is the area.
In sport, very briefly, we have the challenge, as you know, of administering the reductions, like every other sector of the department, in the area of high-performance sport in a context to make sure, as we did make the commitment last year of assuring high performance, that we support athletes, number one, and coaching as a second priority, but at the same time, assure that along with our colleagues, the provincial and municipal governments, we ensure the development of sport for all.
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The Chairman: Thank you. I understand Ms Hurtubise has to leave us very shortly, so I'll turn the meeting toward questions for Ms Hurtubise specifically, before she leaves.
Mr. Anawak.
Mr. Anawak (Nunatsiaq): My point is very brief. Talking about Canadian symbols, I'll just go on with my promotion of the two-dollar coin, which I think is a very nice-looking coin with the polar bear. It's not so much a question; I'll just go on with my promotion by calling the two-dollar coin the nanuk, which is a polar bear in Inuktitut.
Ms Hurtubise: Mr. Anawak, I will pass that on to my colleague who's responsible for the mint and the two-dollar coin. It sounds great to me.
[Translation]
Mr. Bélanger: I have a lot of questions. Could you explain to me why the Public Service Commission falls under the jurisdiction of Heritage Canada rather than Treasury Board?
Ms. Hurtubise: I cannot give you the rationale for that. The Public Service Commission does not report to the minister the same way other agencies do, but a minister has to submit the Commission's report to Parliament. The Public Service Commission is an independent agency that reports directly to Parliament, but there must still be a tabling mechanism. That dates back to the Secretary of State Department era, when the Secretary of State was in charge of it.
So, it is a very different agency. We do not give any guidance to the Commission. The minister does not impose any policy, orientation, etc. The minister is just a vehicle for the tabling of the Commission's report in Parliament.
Why is it not Treasury Board? Perhaps it is because Treasury Board is the employer, whereas the Commission is an independent agency, at arm's length from Parliament. But we are not the ones who decided that, Mr. Bélanger.
Mr. Bélanger: Ms. Hurtubise, I would like you to tell me what the department plans to do with respect to Section 42 of the Official Languages Act. Personally, I am disappointed that in the upcoming issues, there is no mention of it, especially since the Official Languages Commissioner tabled a report a while ago, in January, that was not very flattering. I am more optimistic because at least it is being looked into, but I would have liked to see something to that effect in the upcoming issues. I would like you to tell me what the department plans to do with respect to Section 42, not only Section 41.
Ms. Hurtubise: If I may, I would like to consult Mr. Collet. One of the reasons we did not make explicit reference to it today is that Mr. Collet is to reappear before the committee. There is also another committee dealing with official languages. However, we will answer your question.
The Chairman: If you don't mind, we will continue with questions for Ms. Hurtubise, because she has to leave. Mr. Collet can answer you right after.
Mr. Bélanger: There is one thing that interests me: the Act confers some obligation on the Minister of Canadian Heritage.
Ms. Hurtubise: Absolutely.
Mr. Bélanger: We are the Canadian Heritage Standing Committee. I know there is an Official Languages Committee, but personally, I would like to know how the department plans to fulfil its responsibility under Section 42 of the Act.
Ms. Hurtubise: We understood your question very well.
The Chairman: We will hold your question until Mr. Collet can answer it. For now, let's continue with questions for Ms. Hurtubise.
[English]
Mr. O'Brien.
Mr. O'Brien (London - Middlesex): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is of a general nature, but I'd like to pose it now.
Unfortunately, with my constituents, I do hear some intolerance between francophones and anglophones in Canada. We hope it's a small percentage, but it's certainly there. We have to face that.
The second concern I have is that there is an alarming ignorance of Canada in my view among Canadians generally. We just don't travel enough in our own country. Many Canadians don't know the country outside their own region.
I wonder if the department would concur with those observations. Is there consideration of some specific action plan to address those concerns, especially given the heightened concern for national unity that we're experiencing right now?
.1140
Ms Hurtubise: Mr. O'Brien, I would agree with you that many people are not as aware as they should be of Canada and its history and Canadians and what we do and what are our differences. We have a number of programs to help in that regard. We can provide you with details on that.
But it's also not just a role for the department - although we see ourselves as having a leading role in that. We're striving to establish more and more partnerships to get that better known, to get Canada better known. We have a number of specific projects going on that Roger Collet can tell you about. We can't do it alone, but we're certainly working at it, and Roger has specifics he can provide you on that.
Mr. O'Brien: Could I just request, then, that anything in that regard be forwarded to me. I don't know whether other members of the committee would like it, but I certainly would.
Ms Hurtubise: Absolutely. We can ask Mr. Collet to brief you specifically on that when he returns to the committee, because that's an important element of the department's work. It's something the minister feels very strongly about as well.
With respect to the understanding of French and English, I hope it's not widespread across the country. It's something we're working very hard toward, as well. Government spends a lot of money helping the minority language communities across the country. We also provide money to provincial governments to provide education in the other official language. So we're working very hard in that respect to increase tolerance and understanding. I think ``understanding'' is the key, frankly, to not being afraid of what other people are like.
Mr. O'Brien: Thank you. I appreciate that, and I look forward to receiving that information.
The last point is with regard to Sir Wilfrid Laurier. One hundred years ago our first francophone Prime Minister was elected. I think he is considered to be one of our greater Prime Ministers - not to be partisan. I wonder if there's anything being.... You don't have to answer now, necessarily. Let me just say that I hope something's being considered to recognize that it's 100 years since his election.
Thank you.
The Chairman: Thank you.
Are there any other questions for Ms Hurtubise before she leaves?
[Translation]
Thank you very much for coming, Ms. Hurtubise.
Ms. Hurtubise: I'm sorry I have to leave, but I already had an important meeting with the minister. My colleagues will stay here as long as you like and for as long as you have questions for them.
I would be pleased to come back if need be, at your request.
The Chairman: Thank you very much.
We will now hear the answer to Mr. Bélanger's question.
Mr. Collet: I will try to answer the question while bearing in mind the deputy minister's earlier comment. Since a report was recently tabled by the Official Languages Commissioner, we have been discussing specific follow-up measures the minister might want to take. There will be briefing sessions this week, so, as the deputy minister indicated, I would ask that you respect the confidential nature of our discussions and the decisions the minister will have to make.
Of course, we are taking into account the comments made by the Commissioner with respect to the development review mechanisms provided for in Section 41. We are discussing proposals we will make to our minister, especially suggestions for follow-up measures, and the review system. The minister will no doubt inform this committee or others of her decisions in due course.
As for our understanding of Section 41, and by that I mean federal departments and, among others, the 26 institutions identified in the ruling of August 1994, we have developed a tool that was presented to the development committee last month, a tool that clearly describes the characteristics of the various minority communities throughout the country. The reports of the Official Languages Commissioner often commented on the lack of knowledge of those communities. So we designed a tool that explains the various linguistic communities, including the majority communities in New Brunswick, but also the small minority community such as Sainte-Rose, in Manitoba.
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We then prepared a guide which shows the four characteristics needed to develop those communities given their current circumstances. We have sent the tool to departments and associations throughout the country so that they can help us perfect it. It will bring us one step closer to better informing departments. It will make it easier for them to tailor their programs to community needs as they evolve.
The Chairman: Any further questions, Mr. Bélanger?
Mr. Bélanger: You will come to understand that that is a dangerous question. I always have further questions.
The Chairman: Do other members have questions for Mr. Collet?
I would like to introduce Mr. Gaston Leroux, who represents the Official Opposition and is Vice-Chairman of this committee. We have just been given a departmental overview. Unfortunately, the deputy minister has just left, but all the assistant deputy ministers are here to answer our questions.
You haven't finished, Mr. Bélanger? Go ahead.
Mr. Bélanger: Just out of curiosity, I would like to talk about sports. Do Olympic years, if I may call them that, affect departmental activities and its budget, and if so, how?
Mr. Collet: Every Olympic year, the government plans for special budgets, additional funding for the training of athletes and especially to help national sports organizations develop training programs for athletes and trainers. This is being done for the Atlanta Games.
Despite reduced program budgets over the past four years, there are no plans to cut funding for transportation of athletes, especially disabled ones, during the Atlanta Games. There is also a small program to help some athletes, in special cases, who may otherwise not be able to afford to participate in the games.
This year, the minister also asked us to pair up budding athletes with Team Canada athletes who are headed to Atlanta to help the newcomers see firsthand what it is like to participate in the Olympic Games and to help them get to know one another during those 14 days, since they will be coming from every corner of the country. The program is to be sponsored by both the federal and provincial governments.
There are also the traditional activities, such as the departure and victorious return of Team Canada, events which are always held in one of Canada's major cities.
The Chairman: Mr. de Savoye.
Mr. de Savoye: Earlier on, I asked for an overview of the upcoming issues, and Ms. Hurtubise gave the floor to Mr. Collet so that he could tell us about multiculturalism and citizenship, which are not among them. I have to leave in 10 or 15 minutes, and there are two matters we have not yet discussed which are very important to me: the information highway and the CRTC review.
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Perhaps we could move on to that immediately. I will take notes, and without imposing any limits on Mr. Collet, I would like to come back to it later. Is that all right, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Leroux (Richmond - Wolfe): Good morning, Mr. Desjardins and Mr. Collet. It is nice to see you again. Today I would like to deal specifically with the information highway.
On page 83 of the budget plan, it says, and I quote: "to maximize the benefits of the information highway..."
The Chairman: I had given the floor to Mr. de Savoye.
Mr. Leroux: We have the same question.
The Chairman: Ms. Phinney had also asked to have the floor.
Mr. de Savoye: Mr. Chairman, I will take up where Mr. Leroux left off:
To maximize the benefits of the information highway in terms of job creation and growth, we need an integrated policy and a regulatory framework suited to rapid technological development...The ministers of Industry Canada and Heritage Canada will announce policies and reforms...
This relates to my earlier question. It clarifies the focus.
Mr. Leroux: To be more specific, is this the policy that had been agreed upon last November? When will it be made public?
[English]
Mr. Rabinovitch: The question actually touches a number of areas that fold together. One area is, broadly speaking, policies on the information highway, l'autoroute électronique, l'autoroute de l'information, or as it's sometimes called these days, the ``infobahn''. Let's be clear that when we're talking about the information highway, we're not talking about a single piece of legislation or a single program that might be administered by the federal government or by any provincial government. Rather, we're talking about a full range of policies and programs to assist in the transmission of digitized information, to assist in the consumption of this information and the production of this information.
The Information Highway Advisory Council, which reported to the Minister of Industry and the Minister of Canadian Heritage, provided quite a significant public report in September 1995. In that report it laid out many areas that require either further study or assistance, policy development or whatever - not necessarily policies or assistance that must flow only from government but also policies, programs and activities that the private sector must also be involved with.
To give some examples of broad policy areas where the federal government will be considering future activity, I had mentioned earlier on when we were discussing copyright the possibility of a copyright phase three, which would be a copyright activity to look at the nature of legislation and the nature of rights for both producers and users on the information highway, in other words, the electronic transmission rather than the physical transmission of information.
Another area where we have work to do involves the promotion of Canadian content in both languages for distribution through this creation known as the information highway. Competition policies, the promotion of competition but the respect of the needs for Canadian production of Canadian material is another area of broad policy development.
I mention all this, Mr. Chairman, as examples of where the information highway is not a single entity with a single policy but rather a complex set of entities.
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There is a separate but related area that is known broadly as ``convergence''. Convergence involves the blending together, the converging, of different forms of electronic transmission of information. Fields that previously were purely broadcasting or purely telecommunications are technically converging. The nature of government policy to promote both Canadian content and competition as these different forms of transmission, these types of policies, merge together, are being reviewed. Announcements by the government could be expected down the road.
I hope that's a good general overview.
[Translation]
When we return, we can discuss the information highway in greater detail and talk about convergence policies or various programs and see how both the government and the private sector can deliver those programs.
I hope that general overview answers your questions.
Mr. de Savoye: I would like some clarification on convergence. Right now, cable operators hesitate to invest because the future is so unclear. They do not want to invest in dead-end projects, because they know the financial resources of telephone companies are 10 times greater than their own.
The CRTC does have a certain amount of leeway under government policies. What is your perspective on the current situation? Is it a major issue? Could you be fairly specific?
Mr. Rabinovitch: We can go into it in much greater detail at a later meeting. In short, last year the CRTC published a report not on its policies, but on the advice it had for government. At the same time, the Information Highway Advisory Council also issued its report.
Various departments are currently delving into specific issues. I cannot tell you what decisions will be made because we are not there yet. For the time being, we still have an extraordinary cable system, the best in the world, and we also have the best telecommunications system in the world.
How exactly will these two broadcasting or communications systems compete with one another? Which type of advertising will there be? How will investment decisions be affected? It is up to private investors to answer those questions. Corporations can always invest in foreign markets and implement policies. The world will not wait for us. Businesses can pursue their own development programs. At the same time, policy decisions must be made and be announced soon.
Mr. de Savoye: What do you mean by soon? By Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day, Labour Day or Christmas?
Mr. Rabinovitch: Since Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day is celebrated every year, I can say by then.
Mr. de Savoye: Thank you, Mr. Rabinovitch.
[English]
The Chairman: Ms Phinney.
Ms Phinney: My question could wait, except it's to do with the Canada Day program. I'll keep my other questions.
.1200
I don't know when your deadline is. I've had some groups who in the past have asked if they could appear without any charge. They were willing to come. They not only have not been accepted but they also have never been acknowledged for their application.
Could you give us some idea of who's in charge of that and who makes the final decisions on who appears and who doesn't at the ceremony in Ottawa?
Mr. Collet: You're referring to the National Capital event that takes place at noon on July 1. To answer your question generally, it's organized by the National Capital Commission in partnership with us. We fund it jointly. The program, if you're referring to the official program of activities, is usually prepared with major TV producers in the country - and that varies from time to time; last year it was the CBC - along with the state ceremonial...of our office who look after the official activities of the Governor General and so on and so forth.
I'm not sure if that answers your question. When you say ``appear'', I'm not sure what you mean.
Ms Phinney: To whom should a group apply when they would like to appear as part of the performance?
Mr. Collet: They can apply to the Canada Day committee of the National Capital Commission. They can address it to either the NCC or the department. We feed that in immediately.
Ms Phinney: Thank you.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Mr. Leroux, you have some questions?
Mr. Leroux: I have two. In reference to the flags, since you talked about them a lot and are promoting the idea, I would like to know what promotional programs are on the agenda. Have they been defined yet? As for the Saint-Jean-Baptiste celebration and the Prince of Wales' visit, have budgets been earmarked for that? How much will the flag campaign cost?
Mr. Collet: The minister will have to answer your last question when the campaign is finalized. We are still discussing the promotional program with the minister, and the program is already drawn up. The minister issued a press release about it. The department has set up a team of people to answer the phone, register names and conduct a follow-up. That's all there is.
You referred to the Prince's visit. The budget for that is included in the budget the government earmarks for ceremonial events. A budget is always prepared for royal visits, whether it's the Queen or someone else. Everything is planned in advance. When there is a royal visit, we have access to various budgets depending on the number of provinces visited and the duration of the visit. Everything is provided for, but we have access to those budgets only when there is a royal visit.
Mr. Leroux: Where does the money come from?
Mr. Collet: They come from the Treasury Board base budget and are only made available when there is a royal visit. There's a simple explanation for that. There may not be a royal visit for two or three years, and sometimes the Queen might come twice in the same year. Costs vary depending on the number of provinces she visits. That's why you can't always tell in advance. Those funds are used only when there are royal visits. When there aren't any, they are sent back to the Consolidated Revenue Fund.
Mr. Leroux: Nothing has been defined for the flag campaign except the telephone line? There isn't any reserve fund?
Mr. Collet: The telephone lines.
Mr. Leroux: How many are there?
Mr. Collet: Right now, we have 10 full-time employees answering calls.
.1205
Madam Minister told us she wanted to discuss follow-up, procedures to answer requests, etc.
Mr. Leroux: With regard to the CBC, the budget plan announced that the minister would look at ways to effectively promote CBC Canadian cultural productions as well as those of private producers. Could you tell me exactly what that means? Is that in response to the Juneau report? Might there be a tax to finance the CBC? How are we supposed to react to that?
Mr. Arseneault: I must point out to Mr. Leroux that that matter should be raised with the minister and not with officials, since only she can make a political interpretation of it. She can certainly meet with the committee and I am sure she will be pleased to do so. In fact, it is not up to officials to respond to questions on interpretation of government policy when they refer to quotes from the minister, the Throne Speech, etc.
Mr. Leroux: Mr. Chairman, do you think the question "Might there be a tax to finance the CBC?" is a political one and that officials cannot answer it?
Mr. Arseneault: Mr. Leroux, today's presentation is of a general nature. Officials can no doubt come back this week and the next. They will provide us with more information on their area and that will be the time to ask specific questions on the things you just mentioned.
Mr. Leroux: I see. I just wanted to know, Mr. Chairman, if I could ask my question and hear the officials' response.
The Chairman: I think Mr. Rabinovitch can distinguish between a question on his duties and one relating to those of the minister. Also, I think we all agree that it is not up to us to ask political or confidential questions. That said, Mr. Rabinovitch can answer the question, taking into account what Mr. Arseneault just said and the minister's prerogatives.
[English]
Mr. Rabinovitch: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me answer, then, in a very general manner. To get into a more detailed interpretation of what might flow from the budget speech is really well beyond what we can speculate on as public servants.
On a very general level, the government has indicated interest, and the minister certainly has indicated publicly her interest, in developing methods to promote and assist the production of Canadian cultural products, whether those cultural products be of a film and video nature or cultural products of a television or even a publishing nature.
So on that very general level the issue of identifying ways and means of helping to deal with the financial side as well as the public policy encouragement side for the production of Canadian artistic and cultural products is a problem we are being asked to put our minds to. It would be far too soon to speculate on how this might be done or to speculate on any specific financial or program measures.
[Translation]
But I must insist that Madam Minister and other ministers have already spoken very openly about how interested they were in promoting artistic and cultural productions; they do not just leave it up to market forces. It is not just a question of markets, but also one of programs and promotion.
The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Rabinovitch. Do committee members have any other questions? Mr. O'Brien.
.1210
[English]
Mr. O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, I have a specific question for Mr. Collet.
Just picking up on your earlier comments about the struggles, if you will, of some of our better athletes to get to international games, especially the Olympics, do you foresee the day when we'll call on the private sector more and more to help fund these people? Is there consideration of making such donations more accessible for people, or easier for people to make, through tax deductions and so on? To what degree do we do that now, and to what degree are we looking at expanding that?
Mr. Collet: To be specific, we're involved in this area minimally at this stage. At the request of the previous minister, we have established a sport advisory committee with the private sector, chaired by Mr. Adam Zimmerman from Toronto. It's a series of across-the-country...people who are advising the minister on specifically responding to a business plan that has been established with the provincial governments on where we go from here with amateur sport in terms of the continued funding of municipalities, provincial governments and the feds - some clarity may have to be added there - then to proceed with where we go from here to precisely try to develop support from professional organizations, professional sport and the private sector.
The intention is to develop, under the leadership of that committee - people from the corporate sector across the country, representing all regions - an approach that will, when we implement it, then be able to feed in, over a period of time, in an organized fashion, the support of the private sector into amateur sport. One of the specific areas we looked at, sir, in the first meeting was to look at making recommendations to the government for some review of the tax exemption.
Mr. O'Brien: Just to follow up on that quickly, is there a time line for that advisory committee to report?
Mr. Collet: At this stage, you'll appreciate that our minister hasn't met with the committee. Our new minister, Ms Copps, will meet with the committee next month. At that time, I guess, the chairman and the minister will arrive at some time line.
Mr. O'Brien: Thank you.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Any further questions? Mr. Leroux.
Mr. Leroux: I would like to ask a question about the CRTC. I don't know if the matter was dealt with before I arrived, but if it wasn't, I would like to have some answers.
The CRTC's mandate is currently under review. Will it be an internal process or might there be public consultations?
Mr. Rabinovitch: We are looking at how such a study should be conducted. Madam Minister said very clearly that she did not want a detailed study, because basically, we rely not only on the CRTC, but also on the Broadcasting Act, which governs the entire programming and broadcasting system in Canada.
For now, we are studying various approaches. Madam Minister has already indicated she would like the study to be done quickly and efficiently.
Mr. Leroux: Do you think it would take too long to hold public hearings?
Mr. Rabinovitch: I cannot answer your question because right now, we are looking at various options. It is a hypothetical question.
Mr. Leroux: You are not dismissing that possibility?
Mr. Rabinovitch: It is simply a hypothetical question.
Mr. Leroux: But you are not excluding this scenario?
Mr. Rabinovitch: I won't comment on that.
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The Chairman: To wrap up the discussion, I believe I understood, Mr. Rabinovitch, that these issues are being examined and that you do not have any specific comments for the time being.
Mr. Rabinovitch: That is correct, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
The Chairman: Are there any other questions? If there are none, we will meet again Thursday between 11:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. in the same building, Room 371.
[English]
Mr. Tom Lee will appear before us with the officials from Parks Canada.
Mr. Lee, by any chance is there any preliminary information, without giving you additional work at this stage, already ready that can be sent to the members ahead of time? I know there is only one day left. If they could perhaps have some information that's already available to read about Parks Canada so that they can follow the discussion more closely, I would appreciate it.
Mr. Lee: Mr. Chairman, there is some material. I don't want to overburden people -
The Chairman: I appreciate that.
Mr. Lee: - but I will get you that. I will have also a deck that will be distributed in advance.
The Chairman: I take it that when you appear you will also cover the less obvious issues, such as the heritage buildings and heritage rivers and heritage railway stations.
Mr. Lee: Yes.
The Chairman: Thank you.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: I would like to discuss the future of the committee, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Yes, okay. Can the members stay?
[English]
Can members stay for a short while afterward to discuss our program?
I would like to thank the officials very much,
[Translation]
the assistant deputy ministers in the department.
[English]
Thank you very much for appearing today.
We'll see you on Thursday, Mr. Lee.
After today, we have three sessions left - Thursday, March 21; Tuesday, March 26; and Thursday, March 28 - before we break for Easter.
Mr. O'Brien: Is it at the same time, Mr. Chairman?
The Chairman: Instead of between 10:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. it's between 11 p.m. and 1 p.m. The first session is going to be next week. Parks Canada is going to appear before us. On March 26 we have provided for the Secretary of State, Madame Fry, to speak about the status of women and multicultural programs of the ministry in regard to particular functions, especially with regard to the status of women. It has been suggested to me by officials of the ministry, however, that if we could change it so that Ms Fry appears after Easter, it would be better to have on March 26, next Tuesday, the officials of the ministry appear in regard to citizenship, identity and multicultural programs in detail. So on March 28 we would do cultural development, which is a huge file - CBC and all the rest.
.1220
We're trying to negotiate with Ms Fry's office to see if that can be done. If it can be done, on March 26 we'll have the officials on citoyenneté, identité et multiculturalisme, and on Thursday, March 28, le développement culturel.
That would close up the overview of the ministry. Then when we resume after Easter, I would suggest we then hear both Ms Fry and the minister, when she has time available, and also look at all the aspects of budgets and credits for the coming year.
[Translation]
It seems to me that then, when we've reached the end of April, we will have to keep quite a bit of free time to prepare to study the Copyright Act.
[English]
copyright legislation, by the end of April.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: So we are going to finish hearing from witnesses to get a better understanding of the various programs in the department.
Cultural development is scheduled for March 28. What is that all about?
The Chairman: Regarding cultural development, if you look at the texts that have been distributed, you will see that the department is divided into several sectors. Cultural development is one of those sectors. You will find it on page 19 of the text.
Mr. Leroux: The objective is to obtain information and ask questions. It is in that sense.
The Chairman: To obtain information and ask questions.
Mr. Leroux: To get a better understanding and an overview of Heritage Canada.
The Chairman: It includes broadcasting, cultural industries, the arts and heritage.
[English]
It's a hell of a big number.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: Yes, it is big. So right after Easter, we can begin studying the estimates with the minister.
The Chairman: Yes, that is correct.
Mr. Leroux: But you were trying to add Ms. Fry in somewhere?
The Chairman: If Ms. Fry agrees, we will hear from her first after the Easter break. So we will have to look at her schedule and the departmental appropriation, and it seems to me that it will coincide with the start of the examination of the Copyright Act.
Mr. Leroux: That will be at the start of April?
The Chairman: Probably towards the end of April. Upon our return in mid-April, we will no doubt deal with Ms. Fry, the department and the budget appropriation. At the start of May, I suppose we will deal with the Copyright Act,
[English]
more or less, somewhere around there.
[Translation]
To do so, our schedule must be flexible because this may well last several weeks.
Mr. Leroux: Since there was no meeting planned to discuss the agenda concerning the cultural industry more specifically, I would have liked the committee to devote more time to the cultural industry as a whole and to its budgets, that will be cut, and to the withdrawal of the federal government, which is becoming more pronounced. We should look at how this industry will manage. What objective is planned? I think this is of the utmost importance, because the cultural industry is presently in an extremely fragile situation. So we have to be in a position to question and hear from people.
This also concerns the Juneau report and I would like us to examine it. The committee is here to ask questions. Has the Juneau report been shelved or not? We will be meeting with the minister, and we will be able to ask more questions, but I think we also have to ask ourselves about this.
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Mr. Arseneault: We are ready to study the Juneau report and the other departments as well. I think that questions like that should be addressed to the minister who is undoubtedly ready to respond.
The Chairman: That is why I think once we are finished with the details of the department, we can ask these specific questions of the various assistant deputy ministers and officials. I also believe that Ms. Fry will make a presentation on her Status of Women portfolio and her work on multiculturalism. We are going to hear the objectives of the minister and what she foresees for the next few years. Then we are going to deal with the estimates, and if we have any time left after studying the Copyright Act, I would be more than willing to hold a special meeting to update all of these issues and examine proposals.
Mr. Leroux: Okay, Mr. Chairman. I know that we will have to produce our work on the Copyright Act as soon as possible, because the study is long-awaited.
The Chairman: We must not get involved in too many projects, because we will have to get down to work as soon as this study is requested. I can assure you that it will be a big project.
Mr. Leroux: I understand, but we have to move our work forward all the same. Since we were expecting it prior to the end of last year, we cannot know...
The Chairman: I agree.
Mr. Leroux: We have been waiting for it for a long time.
Mr. Arseneault: With your support, it will arrive more quickly.
Mr. Leroux: But we gave you our support. We were expecting it prior to the end of 1995, but it didn't arrive.
The Chairman: Thank you very much.
Mr. Leroux: Thank you.
[English]
The Chairman: Thank you very much. We'll see you on Thursday at 11 a.m.
We are adjourned.