[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Tuesday, March 12, 1996
.1534 
[English]
The Clerk of the Committee: Hon. members, I see a quorum. In conformity with Standing Orders 106(1) and (2), your first item of business is to elect a chair. I'm ready to receive motions to that effect.
.1535
Mr. Richardson (Perth - Wellington - Waterloo): I'd like to nominate Mary Clancy as the chairperson of this committee.
Mr. Wood (Nipissing): I second that.
The Clerk: Are there any other nominations?
If there are no other nominations, I would ask members to indicate whether they're in favour of the motion or opposed.
Motion agreed to
The Chair: Merci beaucoup.
Mr. Frazer (Saanich - Gulf Islands): Congratulations.
I wish to nominate Jim Hart as opposition vice-chair.
The Chair: If you'll just hold your horses, Mr. Frazer, we'll get organized in two seconds.
I'd like to open this meeting by thanking my colleague, the hon. member from Perth - Wellington - Waterloo, for his nomination. I thank those of you who supported me.
I will do my very best to chair this committee with a remembrance that we are all members of Parliament together and all deserving of each other's dignity and respect. I'm sure that's the way in which this committee will work.
Our next move is the election of vice-chairs under Standing Order 106(2):
- Each standing or special committee shall elect a Chairman and two Vice-Chairmen, of whom
two shall be Members of the government party and the third a Member in opposition to the
government....
Mr. Wood: I'll second that.
Mr. Frazer: Debate.
The Chair: I'm sorry?
An hon. member: It's a debatable motion.
The Chair: Fine.
Mr. Hart (Okanagan - Similkameen - Merritt): Madam Chairman, before we go too far, I would like to point out that the hon. member for Saanich - Gulf Islands raised a motion when you sat in your chair. I believe you'll find that according to Beauchesne's my honourable colleague was first on the agenda with his motion.
The Chair: Thank you very much for bringing that to my attention, Mr. Hart, and I will also say that at the time I told Mr. Frazer that I did not entertain his motion - I believe my words were ``Hold your horses'' - and that we would get to that.
First we are going to get to the election of the vice-chair from the government party. That's the motion we are dealing with at the moment.
If you wish to debate the nomination of Mr. Bertrand, then I will entertain your comments. If not, then your comment would be out of order.
Mr. Frazer: Madam Chairman, there is no indication in this agenda that the election of the vice-chair from the government is the first order of business.
My nomination was in ahead of this and I think it should be dealt with ahead of this.
The Chair: Your nomination was not accepted by the chair and we are now dealing with a nomination for the vice-chair from the government party.
Are there any further interventions?
Mr. Hart: Madam Chair, I ask for a ruling from the clerk on this.
The Chair: You are out of order, Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: That motion is not out of order. If you will check in Beauchesne's, you will see that it is not. I ask that you check with the clerk.
The Chair: The clerk doesn't rule, Mr. Hart; the chair rules, and the chair rules that you are out of order.
We have a motion, duly moved and seconded, on the nomination of Mr. Bertrand.
Mr. Hart: [Inaudible - Editor]
The Chair: You are out of order, Mr. Hart. Thank you, Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: So are you, Madam Chair.
The Chair: At any rate, we now have a motion on the floor - if there are no further interventions - with regard to the election of the government party vice-chair. I call the question.
Motion agreed to
The Chair: I will now entertain -
Mr. Frazer: Madam Chair, I nominate Jim Hart -
The Chair: I would like to finish my sentence, Mr. Frazer. You will have an opportunity.
I will now entertain motions for nomination of a vice-chair from the opposition.
Mr. Frazer: I nominate Jim Hart as vice-chair from the opposition.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Are there any further nominations?
.1540
[Translation]
Mr. Jacob (Charlesbourg): I move that Mr. Jean Leroux be elected vice-chair of this committee.
[English]
The Chair: I don't need seconders for these.
Mr. Frazer: It has been my experience in other committees that only one motion can be on the floor at one time, and I believe mine was the first.
The Chair: Okay, fine. We'll put yours first.
Mr. Frazer: Could we have a polled vote?
The Chair: Certainly.
Mr. Clerk, would you poll the members.
The Clerk: Mr. Boudria.
Mr. Boudria (Glengarry - Prescott - Russell): Madam Chairman, I am substituting for a member who has now returned. He wasn't here at the beginning. So perhaps you can unsubstitute me.
The Clerk: Thank you. I have you unsubstituted then, sir.
Motion negatived: nays 8; yeas 2
[Translation]
Mr. Jacob: I again move that Mr. Jean Leroux be elected vice-chair of this committee.
[English]
The Chair: I would then call the vote.
Mr. Hart: Can we have debate, Madam Chairman?
The Chair: Certainly, Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: I have some serious concerns about electing a member of Her Majesty's official opposition to the position of vice-chair of this committee. As evidence of my concern, I refer to the October 26, 1995 communiqué by the member for Charlesbourg, released on the letterhead of the leader of the official opposition.
Mr. Boudria: On a point of order -
The Chair: Mr. Hart, a point of order.
Mr. Hart: The communiqué invited members of the Canadian Armed Forces from the Quebec -
The Chair: Mr. Hart, a point of order. Just hold; you'll get your chance.
Mr. Boudria.
Mr. Boudria: Madam Chair, I believe you will find that this is out of order because it's presently on the floor of the House of Commons to be voted on. It is out of order, and I invite the chair to so rule.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Boudria.
Mr. Boudria is absolutely right. This is a matter that, as you are well aware, Mr. Hart, is before the House of Commons. Consequently, it is out of order for debate in front of this committee.
Therefore, if you have nothing to add that is unrelated to this particular area, I call for the question on the nomination of Mr. Leroux.
Mr. Hart: Madam Chairman, I would have to say that this issue we are dealing with here this afternoon is associated, but it is different from the item that is in the House of Commons.
The Chair: Mr. Hart, I have ruled that out -
Mr. Hart: What we are talking about today -
The Chair: - of order.
Mr. Hart: - is the election of a vice-chair for the committee -
The Chair: Mr. Hart, you are out of order.
Mr. Hart: - on national defence and veterans affairs.
The Chair: Out of order, Mr. Hart. That's it. I will not recognize you again on this matter.
I call the question.
Mr. Frazer: Madam Chair, would you mind giving me the quote from Beauchesne's that rules it out of order?
The Chair: I will just tell you that if you wish to find it in Beauchesne's, Mr. Frazer, look it up.
Mr. Frazer: Thank you very much.
The Chair: You're very welcome. Anytime.
Mr. Frazer: May we have a polled vote, please, Madam Chair?
The Chair: Certainly.
.1545
Motion agreed to: yeas 8; nays 2
The Chair: Thank you very much. Mr. Leroux is the second vice-chair of this committee.
Yes, Mr. Frazer.
Mr. Frazer: It's been my experience on previous committees that the chair does not vote unless there needs to be a tie-breaker.
The Chair: I think in normal circumstances, Mr. Frazer, you will find that will be the case in this committee. However, because this was the first vote to set up chairs and vice-chairs, on the advice of the clerk I voted. If you would like me to delete my vote, which would make it 7 to 2, I'd be happy to do so. I did not want to have anyone think that I did not have a position on the set-up of the committee, as opposed to what we will be doing later on.
Mr. Frazer: It would be a pity to be declared impartial.
The Chair: No, I don't think it would be a pity. It would be a pity to be declared unfair.
Do we have any other motions?
I now entertain a motion with regard to the steering committee.
Mr. Richardson: I move that the steering committee be struck and that it be composed of the chair, the two vice chairs, the parliamentary secretary....
The Chair: And a member of the Reform Party.
Would the Reform Party care to designate which...?
Mr. Hart: I will sit on the steering committee.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Motion agreed to
The Chair: If there is no further business, I'd entertain a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Richardson: I so move.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Richardson.
We're adjourned.