HERI Committee Meeting

STANDING COMMITTEE ON CANADIAN HERITAGE

COMITÉ PERMANENT DU PATRIMOINE CANADIEN

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Thursday, October 5, 2000

• 0902

[English]

The Clerk of the Committee: Honourable members, I see a quorum. Pursuant to Standing Orders 106(1) and 106(2), your first item of business is to elect a chair.

[Translation]

Honourable members, I see we have a quorum. In accordance with Standing Orders 106(1) and 106(2), our first item of business is the election of a chairman.

[English]

I am ready to receive motions to that effect.

Mr. Rick Limoges (Windsor—St. Clair, Lib.): I move that Clifford Lincoln be chair.

The Clerk: Do I have a seconder?

[Translation]

Mr. Pierre de Savoye (Portneuf, BQ): Yes.

[English]

The Clerk: The motion by Mr. Limoges is that Mr. Lincoln take the chair of the committee. Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?

(Motion agreed to)

The Clerk: I declare Mr. Lincoln duly elected and invite him to take the chair.

The Chair (Mr. Clifford Lincoln (Lac-Saint-Louis, Lib.)): Thank you for your confidence.

I would like to call for nominations for vice-chair, first of all, the vice-chair from the Liberal side of the House.

Mr. Bryon Wilfert (Oak Ridges, Lib.): I would move that Dennis Mills be vice-chair, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair: Mr. Dennis Mills' name has been moved as vice-chair. We need a seconder.

Mr. Andy Scott (Fredericton, Lib.): Seconded.

The Chair: All in favour of the nomination of Mr. Mills as the vice-chair?

(Motion agreed to)

The Clerk: Mr. Dennis Mills is voted in as vice-chair.

I would entertain a second nomination for vice-chair from the ranks of the opposition parties.

Ms. Wendy Lill (Dartmouth, NDP): I will nominate Mark Muise as vice-chair.

Mr. Jim Pankiw (Saskatoon—Humboldt, Canadian Alliance): I'll nominate Deb Grey.

[Translation]

Mr. Pierre de Savoye: I'll second that.

• 0905

[English]

The Chair: Is there a seconder for Mr. Muise? There's no seconder for Mr. Muise.

Miss Grey has been nominated as vice-chair of the committee. All in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

The Chair: Miss Grey is elected vice-chair of the committee.

Congratulations.

First I would like to welcome the new members of the committee joining many of us who have served for a while on this committee.

Mr. Mills, I announced your election as vice-chair of the committee.

Mr. Dennis J. Mills (Toronto—Danforth, Lib.): Thank you very much.

Mr. Pierre de Savoye: Next time be here.

Mr. Dennis Mills: I wish I could campaign like that, where you don't even have to show up.

Mr. Mark Muise (West Nova, PC): The members of the opposition voted for you.

The Chair: I think you planned your grand entrance.

I would like to welcome the new members who have joined us: Deborah Grey, who is now vice-chair of the committee; Tony Ianno; Grant McNally; Andy Scott; and Andrew Telegdi.

I would also like to distribute a list of the various routine motions that the committee has approved before. These are the motions about procedure of business in the committee, time for interventions, etc. They don't have to be voted on again. I just thought it would be nice, especially for the new members, to read them. If you have any other ideas and you want to change any, of course you're most welcome to produce motions to that effect. At least you will know what procedures we are using for committee deliberations.

In regard to future business, there are still two or three motions before us to be dealt with. Today's meeting is purely a formal meeting to elect a chair and two vice-chairs. What I would suggest is if members have any ideas about future business, maybe the next meeting of this committee—which would be a week next Tuesday—we could have a special meeting to discuss the future business of the committee, and in between, perhaps during the intersession week, you could send the clerk your ideas for future business so we can discuss them when we return a week Tuesday.

If that's agreeable, please contact the clerk if you have any ideas for future business. In the meanwhile...

Yes, Mrs. Bulte.

Ms. Sarmite Bulte (Parkdale—High Park, Lib.): Perhaps before we conclude... This has to do a little bit with future business, but I just thought if we're going to be going away and thinking about what we're going to do when we come back, I wondered, Mr. Chair, if we could possibly give some thought to looking at a subcommittee. It sort of arises out of Madam St-Hilaire's motion that is on the table, but perhaps expanding on that and creating a subcommittee to deal with the issues of violence and poverty against women generally. Perhaps this is something we could talk about amongst ourselves and put on the agenda for next week, or the week after next.

The Chair: By all means.

[Translation]

Mr. de Savoye.

Mr. Pierre de Savoye: Mr. Chairman, as we all know, motion M-259 aimed at providing a favourable tax treatment to artists was defeated last night. Therefore, I hereby give notice that I wish to move a motion calling on the Minister of Finance to consider the advisability of providing artists with tax treatment comparable to that provided by the Government of Quebec within the province.

• 0910

I hereby give notice of my intention to table a motion to this effect at our next meeting.

The Chair: If you'd like to draft your motion and send it to us, it will be distributed prior to the next meeting. Your notice of motion is duly received.

Mr. Pierre de Savoye: By all means I'll do as you wish.

The Chair: Thank you very much.

[English]

Mrs. Grey.

Miss Deborah Grey (Edmonton North, Canadian Alliance): I'm just wondering, if we're talking about violence against women or against anyone, don't you think the justice committee would be about the best place to deal with that?

Ms. Sarmite Bulte: This falls within the Status of Women. The heritage department is a part of that. Before we concluded, Madame St-Hilaire had come up with a motion to examine the demands of the march of women, which is happening on Sunday. What I would propose is that we expand upon that, and perhaps, as Mr. Mills has a sports subcommittee, have a subcommittee that looks at that within the mandate of the Status of Women.

Miss Deborah Grey: Yes, I appreciate all that, but technically, violence, it would seem to me, would be a pretty strong justice issue. If someone is a victim of domestic violence or whatever, the justice department is probably the best place to deal with that.

The Chair: Madame St-Hilaire.

[Translation]

Ms. Caroline St-Hilaire (Longueuil, BQ): I'd simply like to remind Ms. Grey that violence isn't the only issue. A total of 13 claims have been made nationally involving such issues as social housing, poverty and violence, to mention just a few. I don't think we need to restrict a study of this nature to the Justice and Human Rights Committee. There's nothing stopping the Justice Committee from considering a particular issue. However, the Heritage Committee had decided that it would examine the issue given that it falls within the status of women. It's more than merely a justice issue.

[English]

The Chair: Are there any other comments?

There are two motions regarding the Status of Women that are before the committee and have even been adopted. I note the suggestion made by Mrs. Bulte. What we will do for the next meeting, certainly, is highlight the motions that are still pending and include your suggestion, which we could discuss then as future business before us and see what kind of scope we can give it. If a subcommittee is needed, the members will decide accordingly.

Mr. Dennis Mills: Mr. Chair.

The Chair: Yes.

Mr. Dennis Mills: You mentioned earlier that we should put a letter to the clerk on ideas and thoughts that we would have for future business—

The Chair: It doesn't have to be a letter. It could just be verbal; you could just give him a call.

Mr. Dennis Mills: Okay. In other words, the next meeting is going to be chatting about all those ideas that we've heard about.

The Chair: Right.

Mr. Dennis Mills: Okay, terrific.

The Chair: We have two or three motions that are pending that haven't been acted on because they got passed just before we broke up.

Mr. Dennis Mills: I want to put on the record that I want to talk about the notion of creating a national park near the waterfront in the greater Toronto area, but in order to do justice to the idea, I need a little bit more time to fully explain the idea and the concept. I just want to record that I've at least brought it to the attention of the committee, and I'll have paper to follow.

The Chair: All right. If by any chance you wanted a motion to that effect or to have it discussed, then if you can give us notice today, as you have—

Mr. Dennis Mills: I would like to give you notice.

The Chair: —and then prepare something in writing so that you can send it to the clerk to be voted on later.

Mr. Dennis Mills: Yes.

The Chair: Mr. Muise.

Mr. Mark Muise: Mr. Chairman, last year at this committee we had discussed changing the times of our meetings from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. to possibly 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. I notice this morning we did that, and it reminded me of how much more appropriate for me it would be. I'm wondering if there is a desire on the committee's part to look at that once more.

The Chair: Yes, I was going to bring it up last. There was a suggestion last year, which we couldn't carry out because the rooms were taken from 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. Is it the wish of the committee to meet from 9 a.m to 11 a.m. instead of 11 a.m. to 1 p.m.?

Mr. Bonwick.

Mr. Paul Bonwick (Simcoe—Grey, Lib.): Mr. Chair, the difficulty we have, certainly on the government side, is that many of us sit on two or three committees, as do some of our colleagues in opposition. The reality is that we have to be at each and every one of ours to maintain the majority support. That's up to the whips for scheduling. It's difficult for us to say we are going to meet at 9 a.m., for example, because the Standing Joint Committee on the Scrutiny of Regulations is meeting at 9 this morning. We're going to have duplication. We normally leave that up to the whips to schedule the meetings as appropriate.

• 0915

The Chair: Miss Grey.

Miss Deborah Grey: Not on that topic. Whatever works for the whole group I guess is the best. All of us are busy, so whatever happens...

I think Dennis twigged my mind there when he was talking about national parks. This falls—

Mr. Dennis Mills: I meant an urban national park.

Miss Deborah Grey: Yes, fine. But we do deal with national parks, do we not?

The Chair: That's correct.

Miss Deborah Grey: Yes, we do. There has just been a renaming of another park for Pierre Trudeau. I understand there are some technicalities there now with treaty rights and it's causing some problems. Is that something we should be dealing with, or was that just a unilateral declaration of our Prime Minister and now it's a sticky wicket, as it were, because some folks are upset? Do we need to do anything about that, or does it just happen?

The Chair: I really don't know what the legalities are, but certainly we can find out the week that that comes up and then get back to discuss it when we meet again. I will just find out what the legalities are and what our implication is in representing the Ministry of Canadian Heritage. Certainly parks fall under our purview, that's for sure.

Miss Deborah Grey: It seems to me that someone has already stepped ahead. On this morning's news—

The Chair: Yes, I saw that too.

Miss Deborah Grey: Because of the native rights, there was a fuss with the name on it—I had heard. I'm just asking. Sam, you seem to know.

Ms. Sarmite Bulte: No. I don't any more than I have read in the media or heard. Everything you read or hear is true unless you have personal knowledge otherwise. Let's get that personal knowledge.

Miss Deborah Grey: That's what I'm asking.

Ms. Sarmite Bulte: We'll find out.

The Chair: We will find out and get back to you when we meet again.

Anybody else? Yes, Mark.

Mr. Mark Muise: I just wondered if we had put to bed the question of the change of time. It was kind of overruled there.

The Chair: Sorry.

If members could perhaps indicate to the clerk which time suits them best... it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. If we do it at 9 o'clock, other members are meeting at other committees at 9 o'clock. If we do it at 11—both of them are inconvenient to some and convenient to others. So it's really tricky.

If the majority want 9 o'clock... you had better be giving the clerk ideas soon because the rooms are taken and then it's too late to change.

Mr. Mark Muise: Whatever works, Mr. Chairman, but I know we had a big discussion last time.

The Chair: I know. I know last time people preferred 9 o'clock, but I don't know if it's the same now with the new members. So if you could just let the clerk know, if there's a majority in favour of 9 o'clock, we will see if we can change it.

Mr. Wilfert.

Mr. Bryon Wilfert: Mr. Chairman, without beating a dead horse here, my understanding is that Mount Logan was changed to Trudeau.

The Chair: That's correct.

Mr. Bryon Wilfert: It was the mountain. It was not the park itself, not Kluane National Park.

Miss Deborah Grey: The mountain.

Mr. Bryon Wilfert: Just the mountain itself.

Miss Deborah Grey: Yes.

Mr. Bryon Wilfert: The clarification is that it would have to be approved in conjunction with the territorial government. So there is a difference between a park name—

Miss Deborah Grey: It was something within the park.

Mr. Bryon Wilfert: That would be the clarification.

Miss Deborah Grey: Which just emphasizes my point, I think, that something within a national park would fall under the purview of this committee. It's just a guess.

The Chair: We'll find out and get back to you.

Is there anything else before we break up? If not, we will see you a week Tuesday.

Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.