SPOR Committee Meeting

SUB-COMMITTEE ON THE STUDY OF SPORT IN CANADA OF THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON CANADIAN HERITAGE

SOUS-COMITÉ SUR L'ÉTUDE DU SPORT AU CANADA DU COMITÉ PERMANENT DU PATRIMOINE CANADIEN

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Wednesday, November 7, 2001

• 1527

[English]

The Chair (Mr. Dennis Mills (Toronto—Danforth, Lib.)): Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome you once again to the committee that celebrates the industry of sport in Canada. We started this journey two and a half years ago, when most of us who are sitting at this table decided we were going to take sport out of the mothballs and put it on the front burner of the parliamentary agenda. We were fortunate enough to produce a unanimous report in terms of our recommendations. The only exception, of course, was our small-market, professional NHL teams, which of course became quite a controversial issue. Nonetheless, our recommendation to help those teams if we wanted to maintain them as Canadian franchises turned out to be prophetic because, as you now realize, we only have two teams left in Canada that are essentially Canadian-owned.

Another one of the recommendations in the report was that we have a sports minister for Canada. The Prime Minister acknowledged that recommendation a few months after our report was produced. We were very fortunate that he chose the then vice-chair of our committee, Denis Coderre, who had mastered the file as we developed it over two years. He became the Prime Minister's choice and the government's choice to represent amateur sport in Canada. As we resume our hearings, we're honoured and happy to have the minister here as the very first witness to present to this committee. He will report to us on the status of the committee's recommendations and his activities over the past two and a half years, and on his vision for the future of sport in Canada.

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So welcome to our committee, Minister. The floor is yours.

[Translation]

Hon. Denis Coderre (Secretary of State (Amateur Sport), Lib.): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

[English]

Thank you very much.

They told me once that, as a minister, you can be questioned in two ways, either during question period or at a parliamentary committee. Since we don't have a lot of questions about amateur sport in the House, I was figuring that, through the subcommittee, I might have more chances to receive some questions from the opposition. I'm therefore very pleased to see everyone here.

[Translation]

First of all, I would like to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and congratulate the subcommittee on its work. It will probably be recorded in the history books that the Sub-Committee on the Study of Sport was a wonderful example demonstrating not only that things can get done by members of Parliament but also that concrete results can indeed be achieved when we combine will, work and dedication.

My presentation today will very clearly show you that what is now known as the Mills Report is, in some ways, a continuation, and all of the aspects that we will presenting in very concrete terms will once again show that the work done by this parliamentary committee, whose members were for the most part sitting around this table two years ago, has borne fruit.

[English]

Leadership, partnership, and accountability are the vision. This vision is the way by which we will push forward to build a new sports system in this country. It reminds you that the Subcommittee on Sport was formed because the last time we had that kind of committee was thirty years ago. Our last committee was formed in order to ask what the future of our sports system should be, and what the future of our society and of our country should be through sport. We can talk about the economy, we can talk about social cohesion, and we can talk about wellness, but we're talking about what kind of society we want to live in.

First of all, Mr. Chair, as a start, I would like to show you what we have realized concretely since August 3, 1999, the date on which the Prime Minister appointed me Secretary of State for Amateur Sport.

[Translation]

First of all, we have increased budgets substantially: there has been an increase in the budget for athletes, for coaches and for officials. There is great news; the arrival of the World Anti-Doping Agency in Montreal. There is a new way to invest in our Paralympic Games, we have a new way of managing sport in Canada through alternate dispute resolution,

[English]

or alternative dispute resolution; a new way of investing in athletes with Podium 2002, through which we will have all the stakeholders at the same table to decide together how we should invest directly in athletes who can produce results; unanimous support from all the stakeholders; unanimous support from provincial ministers and territorial ministers, twice, with the provision of the declarations of Ottawa and London, made the day before the Canada Games this past summer.

We are developing or have developed a new Canadian policy on sport, with a new way of doing things in areas in which there is unanimity; a new way to spend, pushing forward some money on excellence, but also based on participation; a new partnership with the private sector; a national sports summit, for the first time in the history of this country; a series of regional conferences to make sure we send a clear message that we need regional strategies because of different ways used in western Canada, in Atlantic Canada, in Quebec, and in Ontario—we can have the same goals, but having a strategy that fits with the people in any given region is important.

We have come up with a new way to work on the international base. We now have more than eight bilateral agreements with other countries that, like us, are seeking to apply the same goals of participation, excellence, and especially anti-doping.

We have a new way of doing things in this government when we're talking in the cabinet. We have a new decision-making process, because sport is clearly a development tool, a new way to invest. The best example is the new Canada infrastructure program. Through section 3, we add the notion of sports infrastructure or sports facilities. We put more money into the budget of Sport Canada, raising it from $47.2 million to $77 million.

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Sport also needs an event-hosting strategy, a new way to bring back equity, and a way to help our kids have a chance, wherever they are. We have therefore invested in such things as the Arctic Winter Games and the North American Indigenous Games—and the second Indigenous Games will be in Winnipeg, as a matter of fact.

[Translation]

Mr. Chairman, we are working very hard to develop a strategy to welcome international competitions, such as our bid to host the Olympic Games in Toronto, our bid to host the IASF Games in Montreal, to host the World Cup Weightlifting event in Vancouver, the host the Commonwealth Games, or to host world cup events for any sport in all regions of the country, to hold bilingual games, to increase the level of bilingualism to ensure that society does not have the impression that there are two classes of citizens. We have also significantly increased the number of domestic anti-doping pilot projects. We invested $352,000 in the University of Winnipeg. We have also invested in the Institut national de recherche scientifique.

[English]

We put a lot of money in for our athletes because our strategy, our policy, is athlete-centred. We're talking about $1.8 million spent for athletes at the Olympics at Sydney, but almost $1 million for the Paralympics as well.

We are building a new way of doing things. We have national sports centres, but it's important that we have training centres. The best example is Saskatchewan. We had to send a clear message that we would build a proper environment so our kids don't have to exile themselves and get out of there. They want to stay with their families and friends. They want to build their passion in their own environment, and then they can go through qualifications. But it's important that we have a nice place for them in every region of this country, a place in the sun so that they can fulfil their passion.

We are investing in consultation. We have had many pilot projects on things like whether or not we can find a way to have partnerships with the private sector through foundations. We therefore invested $1 million over five years on the Fondation de l'athlète d'excellence.

We raised the amount of money for coaches by 50%. Athletes are important, but we need those coaches, those people who bring out that sparkle in the athletes' eyes, in order to make a difference.

Last, but not least, we have invested in some major games like the Commonwealth Games. The Canada Games and Commonwealth Games are part of the process, and we have to invest in our juniors to build bridges and to work to make sure we build that new cycle.

This is what we accomplished concretely over the last two years, based on sports only.

As you know, Mr. Chair, sport touches base with fourteen departments in this government. We're all building this together to make sure we sing the same tune, because we can chew gum and walk at the same time. We create a momentum—

[Editor's Note: Inaudible]

An hon. member: —

Mr. Denis Coderre: I have those lines sometimes. You'll enjoy them.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Denis Coderre: We create a momentum

[Translation]

which contributes to the quality of life.

[English]

Sports and fitness are a matter of well-being. They're not just a matter of medals. Medals are important, but we have to look at them as part a house. The foundation can be strong, but we have to take care of the roof too, because it was leaking.

Sport touches another base. After the one in religion, the volunteer sector in sport is one of the most important. More than nine million Canadians participate in sports.

We're talking about equity, and we're talking about values. We're talking about making sure we bring more women into the process, and that aboriginals have their place in the sun. This is for first-class citizens at every level.

[Translation]

It is a question of language, equity, ensuring that we can act as a bridge between volunteers and those who like to participate, achieve their dreams and fulfil their passion.

Mr. Chairman, we should be concerned by many different things right now. It is said that more than 21,000 Canadians die as a result of physical inactivity, that 75% of obese children run the risk of remaining so throughout their life, that type II diabetes, which is directly related to nutrition, has a tremendous impact on the quality of life of people and on our own health system.

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We talk at great length about curing illness in our health care system, but we must also integrate this new aspect of prevention. This is why the Minister of Health, the Hon. Allan Rock, and I are working together to promote the concept of participation. If we succeed in increasing the Canadian physical activity average by 10%, we will be saving $5 billion in health care costs on an annual basis.

[English]

So this is an answer to some problems in our health care system.

It's also a matter of prosperity. Sport is economic. Sport contributes more that 358,000 jobs. We're talking about economic growth of $7.4 billion—and my friend from Bathurst is very happy. We made an announcement for the Canada Games, so he knows what that means.

Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): We need some more!

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Denis Coderre: It was important to send a clear message that the work that you've accomplished with this group, Mr. Chair, was not done for nothing. I'm very pleased to say more than 54 recommendations from the Mills report were applied and fulfilled. Five to seven other recommendations were not only studied, but inspire us. The only thing we didn't push through—I think it's a build-up, but we're not ready to do it—was the tax credit approach to physicality. We have to work together to find better ways to provide funding.

The other thing that is very clear in our minds is that we won't invest in Canadian professional sports franchises in hockey and in baseball. Having said that, when everybody eventually controls their industry, it will be important to build bridges to make sure that when we're talking about sports, we're not just talking about amateur sports. This is probably the only place in the world where we're still talking about amateur sports. We have to build bridges with the pros and find ways for them to reinvest in amateur sports—like your recommendation 67, if I remember correctly.

It was the beginning of a great consultation, but it was also the beginning of a great concert. It was an attempt to build a consensus, to make sure everybody finally will sing the same tune, and to send a clear message that government is not just a bank teller with a pin on his forehead. We wanted to exchange the handout for a handshake, and say we should build a partnership and that it's everybody's business.

We started with the Subcommittee on the Study of Sport in Canada two years ago, but then the Government of Canada announced that we would have—like I've said before, and I won't come back to it—a series of six regional conferences. We had the first one in Fredericton, followed by Yellowknife, Regina, Vancouver, Hamilton, and Magog, Quebec. More than 650 participants attended in order to give their thoughts, and together they managed to build not only a regional approach, but the core of the new Canadian sports system. Every government participated, and I'm very pleased to mention that. It involved not only the sports community, but schools, too. School directors participated. My friend Loyola will be happy. We had municipalities in attendance. Everybody who had some reason to get involved through sport was participating.

But the most important thing—and maybe we should add to that—was the media visibility. It started a few years ago, but sport is an issue now. We're not just talking about two weeks during the Olympics. Sport is now a priority because we all understand what it means. Just for the regional conferences, for example, we had over 350 press clippings, so politicians know what it means.

In addition, we had round tables to make sure we also focused on certain problems and on certain areas.

[Translation]

There are specific tables for athletes, officials, Aboriginal athletes, Canadian federations, multisport organizations and media.

[English]

Everybody participated.

[Translation]

Together we want to shape a vision of sport in Canada, and this what led, Mr. Chairman, to this historic event on April 27 and 28 of this year, under the chairmanship of the Right Hon. Jean Chrétien, when the first National Summit on sport was held. This was an historic summit because, following this summit, all of the partners decided to work hand in hand and, furthermore, this summit marked the beginning of tremendous co-operation between all levels of government. We must ensure that we will work together toward the same objective.

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When we talk about participation, when we talk about bringing sport back into the schools, when we say that we want to find a way to get young people to participate while at the same time ensuring that we attain excellence, it is both essential and important that all government levels participate as well. However, it was also important that we empower all of our partners: the private sector, sport communities, Canadian federations, athletes and trainers. Everybody pulled in the same direction, as we say back home.

We had very specific objectives, and I'm pleased to report that, one year later to the day, namely in April of next year, we will have a Canadian policy on sports that will be ratified by all sports communities and governments.

[English]

The conclusion of this summit was very important. Not only did we send a clear message about a new national sports culture, but a message that it must start at school. It is important that everybody participate. Like I said, we had a vision that was unanimously supported by all our governments, and that's the reason it's going to work. During the question-and-answer period, we can talk more about the conclusion and what the summit provided, if you like, but it was about partnership, leadership, and accountability.

[Translation]

Mr. Chairman, it is also important that we take action. We must redefine the way we manage sport in Canada. We must implement a system that will ensure that people no longer work in isolation, that will do away with this perception that people work only in their little corner. We must focus much more on the athlete. We must protect the coach. We need to professionalize the work done by coaches and very clearly we need to ensure that, when we have events that enable us to put our policies into practice and perfect a level of competition and excellence, we all go in the same direction.

To meet this objective, I have implemented seven committees that will be focusing on issues deemed to be priorities. Further to the summit, I implemented an advisory committee, and the cream of the sports community crop was selected to participate in this committee.

I merely ratified the recommendations of this summit, which was in fact chaired by Bruce Kidd of the University of Toronto, whose reputation is well known. We know that he is an extraordinary man. These are people who represent their sector, who represent a community, who represent their region and who, at any point, will be able to provide me with advice on how to implement policy.

I would say that, unlike some issues, that I do not want to denigrate, there was consultation as well as cooperation on the issues we are promoting, particularly with respect to sport, right from the start. Every time we need to make a decision that involves the entire community, we ensure, through this advisory committee, which represents the voice of the sports community, that we are on the right path.

We implemented a participation committee. We need to ensure that physical training and activity are given top priority.

We established a committee for excellence and high technology.

[English]

We need a database. We're a high-tech society. Why don't we have something in common to better manage the sports system?

Through Hockey Canada and Curl Canada, we will have a report in future months, but we will also have an implementation committee to make sure we have one database, one Intranet and Internet system, for all of our stakeholders, which means 58 accredited sports organizations with all their stakeholders and clubs.

Two other things are very important. The first is funding. The reason why we sometimes have a feeling the private sector is not getting involved is that they don't know why they should get involved. We have to be clear about our message. We have to have our own marketing tools. We have to build that partnership. I'm therefore very delighted that we have a very efficient committee co-chaired by tremendous people who have proven themselves in the past and are willing to put in all the effort and passion needed to make it happen.

The committee is co-chaired by George Heller, the CEO of the Hudson's Bay Company, which is also the main fundraiser from the Commonwealth Games; Claude Chagnon, who is Mr. Sports himself in Quebec, and who used to be president of Vidéotron; and Charmaine Crooks, our true hero who did a tremendous job and is also a member of the IOC. So every time we make a decision, the representation is also there.

The other thing that strikes me is that we had some problems with sports management within national sports organizations. That's why, instead of wasting energy—it may be good for the media, because they can sell a lot of papers—I think we have to find a way to help our kids go more into sports development than having grievances. You can have a grievance. You can have some problem with your federation. That's normal when we're part of a family. But we need to build a system so that every time a problem arises, you automatically know where you have to go because of your athletic agreement. It's called alternate dispute resolution.

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There will be an obligatory mediation system.

[Translation]

Every time there is a problem within a federation, we will be using this process. The system will be implemented within a few weeks, but we intend, in very short order, to appoint

[English]

an ombudsperson to help to resolve any problems. It's not a sin to have a problem. Having grievances is normal, but you need a system to make it work and so that people won't be taken hostage in the system. That's very important to me.

Last but not least, we're building a new structure to professionalize the job of the coach. We have sometimes talked about the brain drain, but we have to talk about the sports drain, too. If we want to build a circuit within North America or in Canada, it's important that we protect our coaches. I don't think we've done that enough in the past, but now everybody is singing the same tune. We're aiming at the same target. We have eight programs for coaches through sports. We will build on those and make sure we have one efficient program. Because of that, I have already raised the budget by 50%, and we have $11 million dedicated just to the coaches' association.

I spoke already about the unanimity of governments. I am very pleased and proud to say everybody is singing the same tune. There are no flag wars and no jurisdictional problems. We all put that aside and decided to work together closely. We built the London declaration together, and it is the base for the future Canadian sports policy to be implemented in April, 2002. It talks about ethics, about the long-term, and about meaningful performance. What we want to build together is very important. We want to have a kind of living paper for the next ten years, have a plan, build legislation, have implementation, and build a system in which everybody will focus on and aim at the same target. I'm very pleased and proud to say it's unanimous. Everybody's talking and working together.

On pilot projects, we need to gather and send clear messages, and we need to try some projects sometimes in order to make things happen in a better way. What I'm very proud of is Podium 2002. CODA—the Calgary Olympic Development Association—the Canadian Olympic Association, Petro-Canada, and Sport Canada gathered together and decided to put their money together in one pot. They asked themselves where that money should be invested. We took 23 athletes and asked them what they needed, and we will invest in those things. The best example is the women's national hockey team.

The women's national hockey team wanted $175,000. We asked them what it would take to make a difference. Danièle Sauvageau, the coach, told us what they want to do and why they need that amount of money. We did it. We didn't question ourselves and go through major processes. We said we would put the money there, and we agreed amongst ourselves that this is the way to do things. That's how we work.

We have the “Esteem Team”. It is important that we take care of our athletes, but also that they give back to society when they eventually retire, but not just as volunteers. We have to find a way for them to be our ambassadors. We should treat them right, because the Donovan Baileys of this world deserve a place in the sun afterwards.

We have to go back through our schools. Do you know what I'm saying here? We're building a new cycle of life. We must make sure that at every level, from the bottom to the top, the impact is equal so that all will have their place in the sun.

I already spoke about the University of Manitoba and anti-doping. I'm very proud about the new international role of Canada in sport. One of our greatest moments came when we won the World Anti-Doping Agency. As a team—with the scientific community, with the athletes, and with the countries—we decided together to decentralize that whole regime and to take our place. If other governments are going to be participating, it is important that we are also part of the decision-making process. So I was very proud that we won that bid. From now on, international federations and governments will see Canada as one of the best places in terms of ethics and anti-doping. This is the place to go by.

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It also helped us to decentralize sports power. From now on, if we want to build something like they have in Europe—or what I would call un circuit nord-américain—in order to build that competition to make sure our kids, our true diamonds, don't have to leave Canada for eight months and stay there afterwards, we need to build that system and have our own globalization approach. That's what we're doing. Every time an event is held, every time we go through anti-doping, every time we sign a deal with a government, it's done in a coherent way to make sure it's what we're calling capacity-building. That's the cement needed to make sure participation and excellence stick together. That's how we will keep our true diamonds and make sure our role is to build the proper environment so that they can fulfill their dreams. That's the only way I think we should manage it.

What we will need to do is harmonize things. Through the World Anti-Doping Agency, we will have an international WADA code. Because of that, it means that every time an international event is held, if you want to apply it in a territory, we will need to give some teeth to the code. I'm ready to push forward with a new harmonization process not only in Canada but in the rest of the world, to make sure it will have an impact and the we will finally have drug-free sport.

We've been all over the place. We participate. Canada is now a place to be in sport. You don't pull a flower to make it grow faster, but it surely grows.

I will stop here, but let me finish by saying this government and this country are totally dedicated to making this society better. Whether it's at the local level through the Canada Games, or whether it's by looking to find a better way to finally have a real participation program, then if we want to build partnerships inside the government—and I can answer questions on that, because we already have a process between ministries, between departments, and especially with Health Canada—and if we want to be champions, it is important that we build that chorus and sing the same tune.

Mr. Chair, I am very proud not only to be a Canadian, but to be part of this department, because I have tremendous people working at Sport Canada and in my cabinet. I also have a sports community that unanimously wants to work together and aim in the same direction.

I feel we have to pay tribute to the Iona Campagnolos of in the past, and to Otto Jelinek. Sport is the element to make this country better. After the events of September 11, we have to find better ways to stick together, to understand each other, and to work together. Through the sports agenda, through the new system we're trying to implement, we're not just talking about results or medals, we're talking about life and the kind of society we want to live in.

So I'm very proud and very pleased that you invited me, Mr. Chair. I am willing to answer any questions.

[Translation]

I would like to thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to demonstrate how we can, when there is a will, set things in motion and work with all of our citizens in the sports community. Thank you very much.

The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary of State. I think that you have done superb work over the past year.

Mr. Lanctôt, you have five minutes to ask questions. The floor will then be given to the committee members from the government side.

Mr. Robert Lanctôt (Châteauguay, BQ): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Secretary of State, I have many questions that I would like to ask you. It is too bad that it took many months, 10 months, before a subcommittee was established. When the chair, Mr. Mills, was in attendance, I asked the standing committee to create this committee on sport. I was told that it would be established, but nothing was done until today. I am pleased that we finally have an opportunity to meet you and ask you the necessary questions. I thank Mr. Mills for that. Nevertheless, I think that had we had the time to implement the subcommittee earlier, we could have given greater priority to the issue of sport in Canada.

• 1600

The Chair: I apologize for interrupting you. If you have any questions to ask, you may do so, as we have lots of time with the minister today. So there is no problem.

Mr. Robert Lanctôt: Fine, thank you.

Mr. Secretary of State, something has been bothering me since the summit that took place last April. To date, I still do not know if, following the meeting of the advisory committee on which Mr. Côté sits, a preliminary report has been prepared or if there is any chance that follow-up will be guaranteed. We noted at the summit that the wonderful policy that existed needed to be updated. You say that the revised policy will be ready in April 2002. We still have not received the report.

What we found, and this is what came out of the summit, is that we need resources and not necessarily policies. So during the summit, we asked for the following percentages: 0.15% of GDP in 2002, 0.2% in 2003, 0.3% in 2005, to reach 0.5% in 2008.

I greatly appreciated the opportunity I had to participate in the Canada-France meeting. I do not know if it was the director of national sports or the minister who was present, it does not matter, but the head of sport in France told us that France is already devoting 0.2% to sports and that it was preparing to bring that up to 1%.

In light of that, I would now like to know if we are still devoting 0.6% to sports. Are you going to recommend an increase? When looking at the estimates, we can see that the amount earmarked for sports is still $77 million and that no increases are forecast until 2004-2005. The supplementary estimates contain no additional resources for sports. What are you going to do with these resources?

Mr. Denis Coderre: I see that you have read the Sports-Québec Report on the impact of public funding for sport, namely in terms of money received from the Government of Canada.

I think it is clear that, since we came into power and since I was appointed Secretary of State, we have substantially increased resources. In terms of statutory expenditures, we increased direct assistance to athletes by 60%. We increased funding for coaches by 60%. It is never enough.

I also think that resources should not be based solely on amounts of money, but also on the way the money is spent. We are looking at $77 million, but I did not mention, for example, the $40 million amount that we invested over two years in the track and field world championships. That investment brought in a net profit of $10 million, including $8 million that will serve as an endowment that will be used to create a track and field centre of excellence in Edmonton. The same thing will be done in Sherbrooke, but the amounts are significantly lower, because the championship was at a junior level. Those are just a couple of examples.

The difference this time is that we have substantially increased Sport Canada's budget. We know that sports fall under 14 departments. So we have a lot more sport-related programs. We are currently negotiating with the Minister of Health, who announced at the national summit—and you were there, Mr. Lanctôt—that he was making a commitment to use sports as a tool in the Government of Canada's tobacco strategy. In this case we are looking at $110 million per year for four years.

I gave you the figures for Sport Canada. I did not give you the amounts for the various events like, for example, the ones held in Toronto, for the Commonwealth Games. There are plenty of events like that.

There are also other departments that are now using sports. Recently, we announced a mentorship pilot program at the Department of Human Resources Development. We allocated $300,000 for coaches under this program.

Obviously, if we add it all up, it is a lot more than that. However, I will not quibble with you if you want to ask for additional resources and funds. I would be more than happy to pass the message on to my Cabinet colleagues.

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[English]

The Chair: Thank you very much.

Colleagues, I'm going to ask you to be very precise in your questions and answers, because I have requests here indicating that everyone wants to speak. I know the minister will be very generous with his time, but let's stay focused and disciplined.

Mr. O'Brien, please begin.

Mr. Pat O'Brien (London—Fanshawe, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I think this is one of the best committees I've served on in 21 years of politics in elected office. Mr. Chair, it has been quite interesting, and I think we've gotten into some good issues.

Mr. Chair, with your indulgence, I have to thank the minister—I would be remiss not to—for his outstanding efforts and leadership in the Canada Summer Games held this summer in London, Ontario. He was there whenever we needed him, and he was there often.

It was a tremendous initiative to recognize volunteers before—for a change—they made this huge effort that they made in London. It was tremendously appreciated, Mr. Secretary, and I want to just assure you the memories are very great in London. You started some good trends that I hope will continue into the next summer games.

Now, I said “Mr. Secretary”, but I wish I was saying “Mr. Minister”. It's not whether he's my friend and colleague or not. The point is that Canada should have a full Minister of Sport. It has had one in the past, and that has gone all the way down to nothing. We have now made some progress back toward one. I don't expect the Secretary of State to answer to this, but I just go on the record that if we believe in that message the secretary just gave—which I think we do—all parties in this House should all be pushing for a full Minister of Sport. I'll participate in that lobby effort.

Now I'll get to my questions, Mr. Chair.

The Chair: Sorry, you're out of time.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Pat O'Brien: Out of time, yes.

I had to give the thank yous or my colleagues from London would have killed me.

What's being done, if anything, or are you looking at the history of sport? There are two very interesting things here. This nation has a tremendously proud history of sport that not enough people are aware of, and I want to know what initiatives we're taking in that area. I want to know what initiatives we're taking in terms of mandatory physical education. Since I'm a former phys-ed teacher and history teacher, you can see my interests. I know education is a provincial responsibility, but what leadership can the provinces show to get to the very kids who are ducking athletics in school and who need it the most?

I could ask many more, but I'll stop at those.

Mr. Denis Coderre: Clearly, and very shortly, I would say first of all that through the high-tech committees—and we already have a new website—we digitalized pictures from the Olympics. Sport is also culture, so it's a good thing that we're part of Heritage Canada. We can have a kind of one-two punch to make sure it's part of our identity not in a political way, but in a cultural way. So we're working on that already.

I'm also trying to encourage it every time that possibility arises. Sport is history, sport is about people, and sport is culture. I have tremendous memories of the Arctic Games, for example. That was the first time I've ever been to those games. They were held in Whitehorse. I saw over 1,700 kids from the north, and the games had an impact on them. They are a survival kit for those kids. Just by building an arena in a village up there, we can lower the suicide rate by 50%. So it is important.

So I agree with you. We need to not only talk about what should come next in sports, we need to not forget our past. We need to be proud of it. That's why I'm building this cycle with all my colleagues. It's to make sure our heroes can be part of it, our ambassadors can be part of it, because we have to push forward the living history, too.

On the other thing regarding sports in school, at the last meeting in London, we all agreed on two things. First of all, we had the London declaration, and we're bringing back sports as a participation issue. They pushed forward—and they're already doing this—the idea of making sure we bring back sports in school. Let me give you two short examples.

I was in Nova Scotia, where I got together with sports minister Rod MacDonald, health minister Jamie Muir, and education minister Jane Purves—and Mr. Cuzner attended, too—so we have already worked on something. I won't wait until it's unanimous though. If a region or province is ready to work, let's do it—and we're working on that. It's the same thing with Manitoba, and it's the same thing in Quebec. We're pushing in the same direction.

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The greatest thing is that we will also deposited a memoir with the Romanow commission to make sure we also talk about sports, physical activities, and participation as prevention tools to improve our health care system. It's not just a matter of putting more money in, but how we can save money, how we can save lives, and how we can make sure our kids will have a better future. I think that's what it's all about.

[Translation]

The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. O'Brien.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

Mr. Yvon Godin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The minister seems to think that I am going to ask him for money. I would never do that.

Some honorable members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Yvon Godin: Mr. Parliamentary Secretary—I believe that is your title... In the end, the title does not mean anything. What is important is the person and how he or she can help sport, whether it be with money or by obtaining additional funding from other departments. I am saying this mainly because you said that there were a lot of departments that, more than ever before, were involved in sport.

I am a bit disappointed. I do not understand the report. I did not read it in full, but I did nevertheless look at it quickly. I only saw reference to international events like the ones that took place in Hull. I also saw that it talked about Edmonton, Montreal, Edmonton again, Vancouver, Victoria, and Sherbrooke. On the next page, I saw that it talked about Hamilton again, Vancouver, and Whistler. Everything is mentioned there except the Canada Winter Games that will take place New Brunswick. Of course, the games are mentioned, but there seems to be some difficulty saying “New Brunswick”. I just wanted to make that observation with respect to the report.

Mr. Denis Coderre: I mentioned it earlier.

Mr. Yvon Godin: You mentioned it, but I am talking about the report.

Mr. Denis Coderre: No, look—

Mr. Yvon Godin: No, no.

Mr. Denis Coderre: These are just reminders to help you follow the discussion, because you are just beginning.

Mr. Yvon Godin: It is an observation I want to make, okay?

Mr. Denis Coderre: We will make the change.

Mr. Yvon Godin: If the report does not talk about it, I will. The Winter Games will take place in New Brunswick in 2003. Normally, the games go to one province, but in this case, skiing will take place in Quebec. You are aware of that, Mr. Secretary of State. I know that you are eager to jump in, but I would ask you to wait until I have finished. The report only mentions the fact that the sport pavilion will be in Bathurst.

I agree with you when you say that sports is good for our health, good for our young people, and so on. I do not want to criticize you. All I want is your support. Are you prepared to support me?

I sent a letter to Minister Copps asking for federal assistance. It could take the shape of a partnership, for example, between the province and the city of Bathurst where the badminton and gymnastics competitions will take place. After the games, the building could be converted in order to house a library, space for volleyball and offices for city hall. We always say that after games like these, something should remain in the place that hosted them. It is a kind of legacy left to the region. I would like to know what kind of support you are prepared to give us, since you are a secretary of state who is fully behind sport and you are also a good ambassador for people who like sports.

Mr. Denis Coderre: Mr. Chairman, the Government of Canada invested $13,271,631 in the Canada Games in Campbellton-Bathurst. This is the first time the games will be held in the Chaleurs-Restigouche region.

To set the record straight for my colleague, I announced with the Hon. Brian Tobin and Dr. Jeannot Castonguay, whom we all know well, that we had invested $3.4 million in conjunction with the New Brunswick provincial government to ensure that we could put everything in place so that freestyle and mogul skiing would take place at Sugarloaf. The Hon. Denis Furlong, our new colleague, and Paul Robichaud, the provincial Minister of Tourism, were there when the agreement was reached. However, you realize that we cannot invest millions of dollars to have higher mountains. So the downhill skiing will take place at Restigouche mountain. We invested $326,000 there. The Quebec government also invested $150,000. Everything was done with great enthusiasm. I went to Sugarloaf last Friday. I did a return trip especially to be there. There were more than 275 people.

• 1615

We also invested $1 million in the Eel River Bar Centre. So we are also working with the Aboriginal community.

My colleague talked about a kind of legacy and asked me to support that. I said that I would not invest money in a legacy that would see the Canada Games give Bathurst a new city hall.

As you know, Mr. Godin, I met with the mayor of Bathurst to discuss that. I told him that an infrastructure program existed and that he should go to Heritage Canada if he wanted to do something with respect to city infrastructure, if he wanted a library or other facility and if he wanted programs that did not have anything to do with the Canada Games. I must congratulate the people of Bathurst, because they subsequently decided among themselves to come up with the necessary funds in the community to go ahead with the project.

You sent a letter to Ms. Copps and you also sent me a copy. As any responsible person would do, I have already responded to your letter. Ms. Copps is already aware of that.

The Canada Games is probably the most exceptional example of federal-provincial and community co-operation. Many people have experienced that: my friend from London, the people of Saskatchewan will experience it in 2003 and in 2005, and, for the first time in 2007, the people of Whitehorse, in the Yukon, will also live through the experience. The Government of Canada invests significant amounts of money in those games. Among other things, it pays all travel-related expenses.

My objective—and I am very categorical when I say this—is to invest to ensure that there is a sport-related legacy. There are other programs that exist and that are along the same lines, but the messages have been passed on.

[English]

The Chair: Thank you, Monsieur Godin.

I'll go to Mr. Stan Keyes, who represents the future home of the World Cycling Championships.

Mr. Stan Keyes (Hamilton West, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the World Cycling Championships will be in Hamilton in 2003.

An hon. member: Hear, hear.

Mr. Stan Keyes: Thank you very much.

An hon. member: Get your tickets.

Mr. Stan Keyes: I would like to add to Mr. Godin's remarks. Having visited many Canada Games at many different sites, let's not forget where the money is supposed to go. These are facilities for athletes, whether that means a soccer field, a full track and field, an ice rink, or anything that is sports-oriented. That's what the money should go to support. If any money is left over, whatever is left over might be able to go toward a structure that would double as a city hall afterwards, but I think the legacy we must leave these young people who participate in these sports is a legacy of sport-related activities.

That being said, I'm a little concerned, Mr. Chairman, about whether or not our minister is going to be able to leave the room through the existing openings in the walls, given all the platitudes he has been given here today.

The Chair: Hear, hear. They're deserved.

Mr. Stan Keyes: I want to add to them. I'm very encouraged by his energy and his enthusiasm for this particular file. I'd certainly lend my voice to the idea that maybe we should have a full Minister of Fitness and Amateur Sport in this government, bringing together all those different aspects that lay in different ministries, all having to do with fitness and amateur sport. Let's put them under one roof.

Minister, you said sports fitness is a matter of well-being. You touched on it. You gave us a message and even a dollar value in terms of the savings to be had by realizing a healthier society. To realize the preventative aspects of fitness, Minister, my question is, how? What tools do we have to realize those cost savings, to realize a healthier community? I would suggest respectfully that I think we have such a tool available right now. It's called ParticipACTION. It is there for young people to get healthy before they enter sports. It is there for seniors who can no longer run down a soccer field. But it is there, and it's an important aspect of fitness and amateur sport. Could you shed any light on that particular issue?

• 1620

Mr. Denis Coderre: That's a very important question, and I think it's what is going on right now. I'd therefore like to thank the health minister, the Hon. Alan Rock, because we're working closely together and we're focusing on some concrete answers.

I even said once that ParticipACTION would die over my dead body. I believe in ParticipACTION, and I'm pushing it to make sure we can have that kind of campaign to reach people directly in order to make them more active. Right now, the health minister and I are sharing a document and we're looking for concrete answers in the near future in regard to how we can improve participation.

ParticipACTION is not dead. We've had some discussion about the fact that it's not strong, but it's not dead. But instead of having just a banner, we need to focus on looking at and studying the actual programs that we have now, and the ones that existed in the past. Since sport is an issue now, and because the Romanow commission is looking at what the answer should be in terms of new ways to build the health care system, of course we have to work closely on prevention.

The other thing is the anti-tobacco strategy. Money is there to push forward our sensitivity or promotional campaign. I'm working on that right now. I don't have an answer yet, because it's in study. But we're looking for something concrete shortly, and we have the will of the health minister and of my colleague the Minister of Canadian Heritage pushing in the same direction. So we are looking for answers, and we'll have some answers in the near future.

The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Keyes.

Mr. Hearn.

Mr. Loyola Hearn (St. John's West, PC/DR): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, first of all, let me say to you that your participation in all of this in terms of creating an awareness about the need to put more emphasis on sport can't go unnoticed.

To you, Minister, I have to say I'm impressed for two reasons. First, I'm impressed not just because of what you say—because politicians are getting paid to say whatever—but because I think you believe in what you're saying. Your background leads us to think you understand what you're saying, which is more important.

I also fully agree we should have a sports minister this country. If we don't invest in our youth, then the rest of it is on a very shaky foundation—and I've given examples over the years of how young people involved in sports have contributed so much more.

Without boring you, I'll give you a very quick synopsis of the time the principal hauled me out of my classroom. I was a young teacher playing on our local senior hockey team, and we had two young fellows from the high school, a goalie and a right-winger, who were good players. They played with the seniors in late Sunday night games, and they were falling asleep in class on Mondays. The principal called me out to say sports and education don't go together. I took her over to the wall and showed her the championship hockey team from the year before. I told her to look at all the players. Two guys were still in school, and everybody else was at least a high school graduate, with many university graduates. We had a lawyer, a judge, you name it. I asked her where the others were who didn't participate as we came up through the ranks. I didn't hear anything else about it afterwards. And everybody has a story like that.

Mr. Chairman, the minister mentioned that the impact should be equal from the bottom to the top. My question is twofold. One, I'm concerned about the top. I played hockey because I idolized Frank Mahovlich—although if I had known he was going to be a Liberal Senator, I might have changed to the Canadiens.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Loyola Hearn: However, many of us played sports because we saw others play. You saw people younger than yourself play baseball because, when you dropped your glove, a four-year-old picked it up, and when you went to out in the field, you were looking for your glove. It went on and on.

If we lose the top, it's going to be much harder to get people interested, because the top is what draws interest. We see the concerns we now have about the Montreal Expos. We've seen the Winnipeg Jets go and we've seen the Vancouver Grizzlies go. The Montreal Canadiens have been sold. I'm extremely concerned about what's happening. I know it's a very complicated thing, but we have to address it.

On the bottom end, I had a phone call late last night from a representative of the basketball players in the schools. He's a school teacher from an area in Newfoundland called the Placentia-Argentia area. Argentia is where we hope Voisey's Bay Nickel will build a big smelter so that the area will boom again. But right now, it's going through hard times mainly because the big American base closed down. The Americans did leave some good facilities, though, one of them being a tremendous gym that includes a weight room, squash courts, and you name it. The Americans have to have the best, as you know.

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The gym itself is tremendous. To attract people into the area and to get teams to visit and play in a world-class gym, they use this facility. The management committee looking after the properties for Public Works and Government Services Canada has now informed the organization that it cannot afford to pay for the cost of heating and lighting the building, and it's shutting off the power. When you have a great hardwood floor, you can imagine what will happen if you shut off the power during the winter. It just came up last night. I think my caller said it cost over $20,000 last year. That will be a debt for the youth and the participants in the area.

Of course, if the area rebounds as we hope it will, what's to entice people to come in if they don't have facilities? If I'm going into a place, if I have to move tomorrow, the first thing I will ask about is what's the place has for my kids.

Mr. Minister, I don't know. I said I'd try to convene a meeting of the people involved when I go home next week, but I don't know whether anything can be done. Unfortunately, the school boards are all in debt. They can't help in any way. The province has cut all the little programs we had some years ago, when another government in power in Newfoundland helped sport and believed in sport. Mainly because of budgetary constraints, there's basically no money for sport. What do we tell people in an area like that?

Mr. Denis Coderre: That's a very important question. As I said, sport is an investment, not an expense.

An hon. member: Absolutely.

Mr. Denis Coderre: We have to believe that.

I don't have the answers to all the problems, and I'm not here to say I'll take care of it. It's everybody's business. There are some specific responsibilities, and people have to take on their responsibilities.

First of all, I think the most important thing we have done was to send a clear message that sport is now clearly an issue and an investment. When you have all the provincial ministers sitting with us, saying the same thing, and unanimously pushing in the same direction, I think that's part of your answer. That's a great reminder, and we can start with that.

When even a school system gives us as an answer that it's in debt and cannot take care of it, we have to come back and ask if they believe sport is an investment, not an expense. How many lives can we save? How many great citizens can we build within that system? Maybe you should go back and take them to that wall. Send a message about what those championships meant.

That's the first answer.

The Chair: Mr. Minister, if I could interrupt for just a second, I think Mr. Hearn has raised an astonishing fact. Do you think it would be possible for you to consider approaching the Minister of Public Works and Government Services to possibly review this situation in order to see what the possibilities might be or could be? It seems to me that if the price is only $20,000 to maintain this sports facility, I cannot imagine there wouldn't be even some partial way in which the Government of Canada could maybe... I guess I'm appealing to you to maybe take a look at this.

Mr. Denis Coderre: Listen, it's not our role. The facility is owned by a school system.

Mr. Loyola Hearn: No, it's not.

The Chair: No, it's owned by Public Works and Government Services Canada.

Mr. Denis Coderre: Oh, okay. I didn't get that. Sorry.

Mr. Loyola Hearn: The facility is managed by a committee appointed to manage the property.

The Chair: It's Public Works.

Mr. Denis Coderre: Then, yes, I will talk to the minister.

Mr. Loyola Hearn: I can get you more information.

Mr. Denis Coderre: Sorry, I thought it was the school system.

The Chair: Thank you very much, Minister.

[Translation]

Mr. Marcil, do you have any questions?

Mr. Serge Marcil (Beauharnois—Salaberry, Lib.): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, I think that all of the work that the Secretary of State for Amateur Sport, Mr. Coderre, has accomplished with regard to sport clearly shows how urgent it is to have a department of youth and sport. This area has been neglected for a very long time in Canada. I think that should be a committee recommendation, because amateur sport is a fundamental part of education for Canadians.

• 1630

I would even go as far as to say, and I approve of the comments and recommendations made by all who have spoken, that putting amateur sport back in schools, at the elementary, secondary and college level, will enhance schools as well as athletes. We will be instilling something other than commercial values. Today, there are not many truly amateur sports, except for track and field. We want to turn athletes into hockey or baseball superstars, and so on. We completely forget about individual training and all of the ethical issues linked to sport.

Mr. Coderre, I want to congratulate you on your work. I had the opportunity to accompany you to a meeting of the board of directors of the World Anti-Doping Agency, and I witnessed the work that you did. Today, the results are in. In fact, the Anti-Doping Agency is now Canadian since it is being set up here. I want to congratulate you, and your team, and everyone around you for the exceptional work that was done. Canada is not renowned. Canada is a large country but the population is only 30 million, which is not much in comparison with other big countries.

I have a question in light of the events of September 11th. A sense of fear has taken hold in all areas, and sport is no exception. People are wondering if the Olympic Games in Salt Lake City will take place and if Canada will participate. Recently, in women's hockey, the Americans did not want to participate in the Nations Cup, I believe. If I am not mistaken, Canada won the championship by defeating Finland yesterday.

Mr. Minister, tell us a little bit about the situation surrounding the Olympic Games in Salt Lake City.

Mr. Denis Coderre: That is an extremely important question. If I remember correctly, a Norwegian member of the IOC said that since the United States was at war, the Olympic Games should not take place. That caused some discomfort. I must admit quite frankly that additional funds have been invested, namely by the IOC. Forty million dollars US has been injected into the Salt Lake City Games for security alone.

I will be in Lausanne on December 1, 2 and 3, at the final meeting of the World Anti-Doping Agency in Switzerland. And I am pleased to say that. Secondly, I will have an opportunity to meet Mr. Jacques Rogge, the President of the IOC. The games in Salt Lake City will go ahead. There will not be a problem with security. We are here to ensure the safety of our athletes. We are convinced that Salt Lake City is adequate and that it has done everything possible to protect our athletes.

The Salt Lake City Games will not be cancelled. First of all, that would be a victory for the terrorists. Secondly, we have taken the necessary steps to ensure our athletes are protected. When I get back from Lausanne, I will make a statement to that effect, but at this point, I can tell you that the games in Salt Lake City will go ahead, they will be safe, and that our Canadian athletes will proudly participate in them.

The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

[English]

Next, we'll hear from Mr. Inky Mark, one of the founding members of our committee.

Mr. Inky Mark (Dauphin—Swan River, PC/DR): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm very glad to be back here today for this very important meeting. First, let me congratulate the minister for his good work and hard work as a former member of this committee. The documents he has presented certainly show he has been very busy since his appointment.

I agree with the minister fully that sport really is part of our Canadian culture. It has a great unifying role for this country. In terms of health, I'm sure it will have a huge role to play as we all get older in the short-term future and the long-term future.

I'm very glad to hear you're promoting sports infrastructure development. That was one of the key points raised by that report. My question relates to support. On the Olympic side, I know our Olympians certainly need support. I'm glad to hear you support them very well. My concern is the amateur level. Have you looked at and re-examined the delivery mechanisms to ensure that new funding gets down to the sports associations and organizations in need of the funding? Like my colleague Mr. Hearn, I think the biggest concern at the bottom end really is the cost related to infrastructure usage, whether that infrastructure is private, municipal, or public.

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Mr. Denis Coderre: What you're also talking about is accessibility. It's important that we have access to all the sports venues. Sport is a development tool, but sport is also a social cohesion tool, so having opportunities for our kids to fully participate is important. We have a few pilot projects in rowing, and we're also making sure that those kids will be able to have access at the foundation level. The most important thing—and this is why I put the emphasis on the unanimity of support from all levels of government—is that we all agree that access and the money we invest in sports should be focused on those preoccupations that you have.

I want to pay tribute

[Translation]

to the President of Treasury Board, the Hon. Lucienne Robillard.

[English]

We worked together to change section 3 of the infrastructure program. We're now talking about recreation and sports venues. They're very important. We know municipalities all over the country will ask for amounts of money if they make them a priority. You then go through the provincial governments, and you come to an agreement.

The other thing is the hosting-of-events strategy, but not just for international events. We're also talking about the Canada Games, and we can talk about uni-sport championships and Canadian championships. Those will provide some sports facilities. The name of the game is legacy. The name of the game is pushing in the same direction. If we can do that, we will have answers to your questions.

The most important thing is that the awareness program that we have pushed forward in the last two years is making that happen. People are no longer just talking about sports during the Olympics, saying after two weeks that we didn't win enough medals, and blah, blah, blah. We're now using that program as a tool. It's social, it's economic, and it's a great way to bring people together. We can talk about motherhood and apple pie, but we need some concrete results. Those results are what we have accomplished in the last two years.

[Translation]

The Chair: Ms. Scherrer.

Ms. Hélène Scherrer (Louis-Hébert, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Coderre, I must say that I too had the pleasure of accompanying you in almost all of the instances mentioned here, in the most recent brochure, at both the local consultations and the national summit. Having been involved in many sports organizations, I know that the most important impact, above and beyond the investments and the new infrastructure, has been to instill hope in our athletes and coaches. They see that someone somewhere is talking about them and that there is a platform so that they can ensure that their issues will be taken a step further.

Until present, athletes, coaches and federations felt like orphans, because they fell under several departments that had piecemeal approaches. They had nowhere to turn to talk about their problems. If that was all that had been created, it would already have been a very important step.

There is one thing I keep hearing just about everywhere. I know you heard it as well, but I would like us to continue discussing it. I am referring to the problem of coaching. In my opinion, coaches remain pivotal to any discussion of sport, and the evolution of sports in the next few years depends on them. I am talking about the national level all the way down to municipal hockey coaches.

Right now, we are trying to change people's attitude to sport in many different regards. I think that we need to work very hard to change people's attitude towards coaches. National coaches are paid and recognized for their value, but unfortunately, at the local and municipal levels, coaches are often parents who do this in addition to their regular job. Even the coaches of developing athletes are often young people who have to hold down another job in order to earn a living and who work as coaches on evenings and weekends. We put our young people and their future in their hands.

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I have been giving this a lot of thought, and we probably discussed it on numerous occasions. Would it be possible somehow to work with Human Resources Development Canada so that the work of a coach can be considered recognized employment with an appropriate classification and salary, so that young people do not say that they will coach during the summer and then find a job because they cannot earn a living from coaching? In future, would it be possible to consider making the work of coaching a profession where people get training, gain experience and can eventually earn a living? That is the only way we are going to develop sport and make sure that young people who start at a lower level can move up.

Mr. Denis Coderre: The first announcement I made in March 2000 was with regard to athletes. The second announcement we made a few months later concerned coaches. This was not strictly in terms of resources. Of course, we increased resources by 50% because we had to respond to certain specific and urgent needs, notably with a view to preparing athletes for the Sydney Games. In order to prepare the athletes, we needed one more coach. These were services needed to better supervise the athlete.

But we did create other things. We struck a working committee co-chaired by Dave Johnson, chief coach of Swimming Canada, and Danièle Sauvageau, chief coach of the Women's Hockey Team, along with people from the Coaching Association of Canada, various experts, and the Canadian Professional Coaching Association.

Indeed, there are two problems here. There is the issue of working conditions and therefore employability, and there is also the issue of professionalization and accreditation of coaches. I received the report and I am prepared to implement it. There are already talks going on with the Department of Human Resources Development. That is one approach, but within our sports system, we must also do two other things. First of all, we have to come to an agreement with universities so that we can provide a better calibre of training and supervision for coaches. If we want it to be a profession, we have to provide for accreditation. Secondly, we have to make sure that the Coaching Association of Canada not only has the level of accreditation, but also the level of representation needed to ensure that coaches can have a representative as is the case for Athletes Canada. We have to increase professionalism not only at the national level, but also at the international level. It is not true that a volunteer coach cannot be a professional.

Therefore, we have to develop a community mentality to ensure that each region has a professional coach who can give courses, somewhat like my friend Binet did for tae kwon do. There has to be training in the regions so that we can have not only professionalization, but consistency. Thus we will look forward to better protection for our children within the community system.

That is what we are aiming for. That sum of $11 million is an envelope. We are going to re-evaluate the way we spend. We increased budgets in order to make sure we kept them. It is very important that there be this amount of money for coaches. Instead of having eight programs, we are going to have one system for coaches.

[English]

The Chair: Thank you, Minister.

When we were developing our report, I believe one of the reasons our committee was so successful was that every member had an opportuntiy to participate. We're now proceeding to our second round with Monsieur Lanctôt, but I would again ask that questions be precise and that answers be precise, because we still have to hear from Mr. Cuzner and Mr. Binet. Perhaps Madam Scherrer will want to ask another question as well, because we have fifteen minutes remaining.

[Translation]

Mr. Robert Lanctôt: I appreciate being able to speak a second time.

It is often said that we should have a department. It is true that we have to take amateur sport out of Heritage Canada, for many different reasons, including the Canadian identity. You do not have to tell us that we need a department. I think we are all convinced that amateur sport should have its own department.

However, a lot of hope and expectations have been created, sir. I wish you good luck in hoping that this will not simply be a matter of redrafting legislation, but that the necessary resources will also be provided. Will the amounts currently earmarked for sports also be increased? Will that figure be increased? I was just referring to France. I will not discuss Australia and Norway, because Canada would be ashamed. However, I did refer to France. It is already three times more generous; it is already at 0.2% of its GDP. But I do not want to go back to that. I asked you a question and I did not get an answer. I asked you if we were going to get the resources, because that is what is important.

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We are talking to these athletes about hope. Mr. Chairman, during a CAAWS convention, Researcher Karine Henrie explained that female athletes were posing nude in order to support their sport and career and to be able to train for international-level competition.

I have several different questions about this.

What action does the Secretary of State for Amateur Sport intend to take to take on his share of the social responsibility towards these athletes and make sure that women athletes are no longer forced to resort to this type of activity to train and compete internationally?

Moreover, during the National Summit on Sport, sir, you emphasized excellence in sport and optimization of resources. How can you explain that these women athletes must still pose nude in order to fund their training and competition despite the fact that this situation was widely known before the Sydney Olympics when the women cross-country skiers on the Canadian team had posed nude? What are the immediate corrective measures you intend to take so that this kind of funding that is undesirable for women can stop?

Mr. Denis Coderre: I think that it is the women of the Australian water-polo team who produced a calendar and posed nude. The Australians were also short of money.

I would say that we did act. There were substantial increases in resources. If there are individuals who decide to do this sort of thing, I am not here to censure them. If they want to do this because they feel like it or through personal initiative, they are free to do so.

Having said that, I have always said that there is never enough money and resources. But let us look at the facts. There was an initial increase. When we increased budgets by $20 million a year, we increased them up to 60% and in certain categories, we more than doubled direct assistance to athletes. The best example is Geneviève Janson. When she began, there was a carding system,

[English]

a carding system.

[Translation]

There were the letters J to A. People in category J, the juniors, earned $185 a month and people in category A earned $810 a month. We could not make heads nor tails of this. I thought it was rather awful that incentives be based on a system of letters. In addition, there was a problem between team sports and individuals sports. We changed all that. We said that there would be a senior card and that people in that category would go from $560 or $810 per month to $1,100 per month and that the juniors, those in categories C1 to J, would go up to $500 a month.

The women's issue is of the utmost importance to me. Therefore, there was extra help. There are resources, but not only direct assistance to athletes. There is also extra funding that we give to the federations. We increased the monetary assistance that we were giving to 47 federations. Clearly these resources are allocated to athletes in several different areas. We also increased funding to national sport centres, which has a direct impact on the athletes. We created a training centre for the Quebec region and also one for Regina. We put money into the Canada Games. In short, there are additional resources.

This government and all of Parliament are very concerned with the issue of women in sport and with all these equity measures. The World Conference on Women and Sport will be held in 2002. When we fund a federation, each accountability measure must be linked to a specific policy that accommodates women's place in the sport.

I don't know what you think of someone posing in the nude. It's up to that person. I must say that in certain cases, it may be unfortunate if the person is doing it because of lack of funds. We are working on it, but before allocating additional resources, Mr. Lanctôt, it is very important that we learn how to spend that money. That is why our policy is athlete-based, and why we have committed to working on this and responding to their needs over the last two years, not only through committees and discussion, but also by adopting concrete measures to deal with these problems.

[English]

The Chair: Thank you, Minister.

• 1650

I personally would not support men or women posing nude for an amateur sport promotion. I think that reinforces the fact that for all of us on this committee, and especially for our members in opposition—and I say this to you humbly but constructively—it's very important that you use the House of Commons to challenge the executive of the government to press for more resources for the sports envelope. Our committee recommended to the Minister of Finance two years ago that just to be able to compete at the base level with other G-7 countries, we should be up to $250 million a year. We're a long way from that. On the government side, we try very hard to press the executive, but we need your help as well. You should be challenging the secretary in the House on a regular basis, and the Minister of Finance. That's the nature of the parliamentary system.

Mr. Cuzner, please—and I would ask you to make your questions precise, because we're running short on time.

Mr. Rodger Cuzner (Bras d'Or—Cape Breton, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll be measured in my praise for the Secretary of State. I know he has had a number of accolades thrown his way today. With his chest out, he's probably one compliment away from popping the buttons on his shirt. I certainly want to commend the committee on the work it has done under your chairmanship, Dennis, but certainly the Secretary of State has done a tremendous job.

Having spent a number of years in the sports community, and having been to the summit, I think there's a guarded sense of optimism. A great cross-section of sports people were there, including athletes, coaches, managers, and administrators, and I think they were guardedly optimistic about great possibilities. I guess it was the go-forward position that came from the summit. There was a little Missouri there, and they wanted to see the “Show Me” in it.

To that end, I'm going to ask two questions. The first one is on developing partnerships with the corporate community. Where have we gone since the summit? What advances have been made since the summit in terms of opportunities to develop partnerships? I think we see the potential in some of the big-ticket things, in hosting major sporting events. I commend you on your support of the national women's hockey program. I think it's very noteworthy, but, again, I think corporate Canada has a responsibility, so I'll ask you what strides have been made.

The other thing is specifically in regard to our young athletes. Coming off what both Inky and Loyola brought forward, our young athletes are training harder, their sports are more structured, and they're certainly competing at higher levels at a younger age. I come from an area in which economic decisions have to be made in households in terms of whether or not young people take part in sport. I look at hockey, the area I'm most familiar with. I find we're not getting our best young athletes involved in goaltending anymore, because it has become a sport pretty much dominated by the children of upper-middle-class families.

I'm just wondering what the Secretary of State's sense is of where the federal government can play a role when it comes to that single mom making the decision about whether or not she can afford to enroll her son in a particular sport. Do we have a part to play in that decision-making process? Can we do something to make sure every Canadian, male or female, has that opportunity, and that the decision is not one that has to be made at the kitchen table?

An hon. member: Hear, hear.

Mr. Denis Coderre: I think you're right. We have to pay tribute to all those parents who sacrifice themselves and understand the importance of sports for their kids. There are two things there, though.

First of all, I know hockey is not necessarily affordable. I remember that in the Mills report, when we had the witnesses in, we spoke with the manufacturing industry. We also have to find ways to build partnerships with corporate Canada, and that's also linked to your first question. If we have a women's hockey team in need of equipment, that's quite specific. Why can't we have a specific agreement with corporate Canada so that corporate Canada can help, and so that young girls can also have programs allowing them to participate in sports?

• 1655

The other thing is that some evolution is taking place in sports participation. Soccer is now the number one sport in this country. Why? Because it's unisex and because it's affordable. Instead of investing in pads, people would sometimes rather have a pair of running shoes and a ball, and that's it.

But I hear you about corporate Canada, That's why I'll have the first report of our working group in December. We're talking about sponsorship. We're talking about new ways of spending money. We're even talking about what the scenarios should be. What can we do? How can we improve the marketing skills, the funding skills? What is the message, so that we can manage to have some kind of consolidated fund that is also totally dedicated to certain sports? Those are the kinds of discussions we have, and the business community members on that committee are working hard to give me those answers. After that, we'll sit down together.

I want to make sure we not only have a national sports policy in April 2002, but a national sports system that is ready—at least, most of it—to work, so the funding issue is very important. We have to discipline ourselves, though. If we want to talk about tax credits, and if we want to talk about changing the Income Tax Act, we will have to send a clear message and prove that, together, we agree and can work in the same way, that we can sail our ships in the same direction.

We have had a lot of problems in the past. The right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. The sports community will now have to discipline itself. That was what the summit was all about: to find our way. And it's more than optimism, it's a thing of everybody finally taking their own responsibility. Everybody is part of the solution.

[Translation]

The Chair: Mr. Godin, do you want to ask another question?

[English]

Mr. Yvon Godin: Everybody's saying you're doing a good job, Mr. Coderre, so maybe we don't need a Minister of Sport.

I have a question I want to raise, though, because I don't want to have it left being said that we're asking for a city hall. What we're asking for in Bathurst is a field house for the games. After that, they could switch part of it into a city hall, with the rest of it continuing for games. You said it yourself. The people took it on on their own, and they will have to raise their own money. You also said we're putting money into Sugarloaf, which is in Campbellton, and into Eel River Crossing. But I'm talking about Bathurst, because the games are in Bathurst.

In Cornerbrook, I know probably around $40 million was put through ACOA because they had to build that hill for skiing. There was lots of money. If you look at Edmonton, Alberta, over $40 million was put in through other programs, because Alberta has lots of money.

An hon. member: Did you say $40 billion?

Mr. Yvon Godin: No, I said $40 million. The $40 billion is in the EI program.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Yvon Godin: What they're looking at is about $750,000 shared three ways. At the end, we'll probably be at about $250,000 that will help the children of our region, the youth of our region. My question is whether or not you are on board with us in terms of support, in order to tell the minister this is a good thing.

I think the government's other departments... as you said, we have other departments and supports. That money will be invested for the games, and there will be a legacy at one part of it, because part of the building will stay for games. I don't want to go on record saying I want a city hall built. It's something else. It's a field house. It's a legacy for Bathurst. That's what the people of Bathurst want from the games. Everybody agreed to it, and now we're asking for support on that.

Mr. Denis Coderre: I think we're supporting a lot. I can say the reason the Canada Games are working—and this is especially why we have unanimity—is that I work with the organization committee. People in the field agree on a package, and we're working on a package. We're working with the provincial government, and we agree this is where we should invest.

• 1700

Now, if we're talking about specific programs, you can send me a letter—copy it to me through Madame Copps—and for other purposes, we can look at it. But in regard to the Canada Games, we proposed a package that was agreed to by all the stakeholders. We pushed forward in the same direction, so let's have a great Canada Games. I'll be there.

[Translation]

Mr. Gérard Binet (Frontenac—Mégantic, Lib.): Good afternoon, Mr. Minister.

I was afraid that I might not have the opportunity to speak as I have another meeting starting soon. I wanted to congratulate you.

You mentioned tae kwon do earlier. I have devoted almost 30 years of my life to tae kwon do, including 25 years as a coach. I was aware of the fact that there was a great need for that. Training athletes who are only looking for a good time, that's fun of course, but training high-calibre athletes is another thing altogether. As Ms. Scherrer was saying earlier, it's when a person goes through the various stages to become a coach that things become harder. The person is a volunteer, and afterwards, they have to pay to become a coach. It is very complicated. This aspect would be worth reviewing.

I really want to congratulate you. Through the work that you are doing, you are providing some visibility, for our constituents, showing that someone is taking care of sports in Canada.

I experienced something this summer. We had trained five Canadian champions this year. Four of them were supposed to go to Chile, but there was some problem with the federation. I called your office and spoke to Raymond. Thanks to that initiative, I was able to speak to the president of the association that same day. The necessary funds were therefore made available. The problem was settled in two days. As a member, I loved that. If I had not been successful, I would have looked foolish in the eyes of my constituents, who know that I am involved in this. It's a roundabout way of saying that it's important to have someone permanently delegated to sports.

I will now move to my question dealing with harmonization at the provincial level. In the tae kwon do world, people talk a lot. They wondered why they were unable to participate in the Jeux du Québec in spite of the fact that tae kwon do is an olympic sport. Are the provinces discussing eventual harmonization?

Mr. Denis Coderre: There is harmonization. Obviously everyone participates. The important thing is to ensure that there is a development process for the athlete. When we talk about the Quebec games or the Ontario games, we are talking about team sports. Almost 38% of the athletes who managed to make it to the Canada games will make it to the Olympics. The important thing is to develop a coherent process. The fact that we are now discussing both participation and excellence and that the equation will be completed by value for money, will allow us to create a cycle that will eliminate the gray areas. In this way, I believe that we will not only be able to ensure that our champions perform well, but that we will also have a talent-spotting program and that we will be able to focus on the next generation.

I will conclude by saying that it is for this reason that the funding of Canadian federations is essential. The Canadian federations have an important part to play, and we believe in this role. We must ensure that within the accountability framework, there are programs based on equity, for example sports for the disabled amongst others, and that at the same time we increase the percentage of funds destined for developmental sports in order to ensure that they can also progress. That is the role of a Canadian federation. The provincial federations also have an important role to play. My role, basically, is simply to be there as a facilitator in order to make sure that people at every level can respond to the needs, as was the case for tae kwon do.

[English]

The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Minister. It is now 5:05 p.m., and you have been very generous with your time today.

By the way, it would be shameful of me to go through this meeting without acknowledging the magnificent work of Mr. Norman Moyer, who has worked on this file for many years for the department. Officials around here spend thousands of hours of their lives working on files. They get very little recognition, but I know all the members of this committee acknowledge their work in supporting Mr. Coderre. We appreciate it.

• 1705

Now, Minister, I believe we have covered our proceedings with you today. I would like to leave two questions with you from the chair. First, we will be pulling together information from a number of areas over the next couple of months, and we will need questions answered. Within the next sixty days, would it be possible for you to consider returning to the committee for a shorter meeting so that we could update some of the questions? That would be my first question, and you can get back to us on that, of course.

The second question is on the issue of sports sponsorship. Does anyone on your team specifically, directly, on a 15-hour-a-day basis, go out and touch, tap, hustle—whatever word you want to use—corporations to become involved directly with the amateur sports realm?

Mr. Denis Coderre: First of all, let me re-emphasize my support for Sport Canada and Canadian Heritage. I thank the Prime Minister for acting on our recommendation 1 from our report, which was to have a political voice at cabinet. But the most important thing is that we know that in the past, when we had a department that had to fulfil this mandate, it was pretty rough days. Mr. Moyer and his team—Sue Niel, Carole Lacombe, and Roger Ouellette, among others—did a tremendous job with all the consultants. If there is a sports minister, it will be because we have a good team. Through my cabinet and through Sport Canada and Heritage Canada, I can assure you... you were saying they work thousands of hours. You should expand on that, because they do more than that. We accomplished that in the last two years, so you can imagine all the work involved.

Now, I am available. I don't have any problem with that. We can talk about it. We'll look at the agenda. But this not just a subcommittee that has the Secretary of State in. You also have to make sure you have an ongoing process for all the other witnesses. That's your job, and you do it better than me.

The other thing was in regard to sponsorship. Mr. Sponsorship himself is on my committee, and that's Chris Lang. Chris wrote the first report in 1969. I would say he's the expert in Canada, and he is in charge of specifically that point for the committee. We have several great people, like Doug Mitchell, of the Howard Mackey Award; Jack Agrios; Fred MacGillivray, who is in charge of Events Halifax; and somebody by the name of Michel Simard, who is working full time to make sure we can answer on that point.

The Chair: Thank you.

[Translation]

Mr. Robert Lanctôt: I would like to ask one final question if I have unanimous consent to do so. I think that we could agree on putting one last question to Mr. Coderre. He will probably need to check on the figures.

[English]

The Chair: Mr. Lanctôt, we have other members who have other committees to go to, and some of them are running behind. Perhaps you could...

I still need the support of the committee for our next witnesses two weeks from now, the Olympic Aid people. As long as I have the—

[Translation]

Mr. Robert Lanctôt: I am sorry but it says on the agenda that we are sitting from 3 o'clock until 5:30 p.m., and it is 5:10 p.m. I don't think that one single question would put a lot of people... I don't know if the committee could allow me to ask one question.

[English]

The Chair: Excuse me, Mr. Lanctôt, but we do have some other business. I just want to make sure I have the support of the committee in regard to organizing the meeting with the next witnesses. It won't take any time.

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Chair: I have support, so I can now allow you to ask your question. Meanwhile, we'll organize that with the clerk for the next meeting.

[Translation]

Mr. Robert Lanctôt: You are very kind. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Coderre, for allowing me to ask this very important question.

Following a complaint that was sent to the Commissioner of Official Languages in 1999 regarding the state of French in Canadian sports federations, a report was produced last year including 16 recommendations, 12 of which were to be implemented by April 1, 2001 or before.

• 1710

The commissioner's recent report refers once again to the review and application of official languages goals by Sports Canada. Sports Canada officials have been aware of the substance of this report for over a year. The deadline was April 1, 2001. Until now, francophone athletes have always had a very hard time obtaining services in French from several of the Canadian sports federations. The minister responsible for official languages has told us that he doesn't have the personnel and has no particular power to enforce his mandate, which is discouraging.

[English]

The Chair: Excuse me, but is it going to be a short question?

[Translation]

Mr. Robert Lanctôt: Here is my question. What steps have been undertaken to correct this ongoing situation within numerous Canadian sports federations regarding the almost exclusive use of English as the language of training and competition, so that our francophone athletes will no longer be penalized? When will the recommendations in the two reports from the Commissioner of Official Languages be implemented?

[English]

The Chair: Mr. Minister, I would appreciate a very short answer.

[Translation]

Mr. Denis Coderre: Mr. Chairman, I'm very well aware of the complaint sent to the Commissioner of Official Languages as I was one of those who made it. Therefore it's very clear. It's probably the first time in the annals that a plaintiff responds to his own complaint.

Obviously, we are committed to this. Last week, I wrote another letter to the Commissioner of Official Languages. I told her not only that the implementation is going very well, if only as regards Sport Canada, where a tremendous amount of work is being done, but also that we were even changing the way things are done at the level of the sports organizations.

At the major games level, I can confirm that since our arrival on the scene, everything is bilingual, including the Canadian Olympic Association, the Jeux de la Francophonie, the World Championships in Edmonton, and the Canada Games in London. There are more and more francophones participating.

I want to thank Mr. Marco Veilleux publicly; he has just been elected President of the Aquatic Federation of Canada, an umbrella group which includes Synchro Canada, Swimming/Natation Canada, the Canadian Amateur Diving Association and Water Polo Canada.

Therefore, there is more and more French and there is more and more work being done in this area. I am very sensitive to this issue. Moreover, if memory serves me well, the Commissioner of Official Languages, in her last report, said that Sport Canada was on the right track. This is of significance to me, and I thank you for having asked such an important question.

[English]

The Chair: Mr. Minister, thank you very much for your great work. We will see you again in the near future.

To all other colleagues, we had a good first meeting today. I will now adjourn the committee for two weeks. Thank you.