Issue 05

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

TUESDAY, MARCH 4, 1997
(Meeting No. 29)

[Text]

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 12:29 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Vice-Chairman, John Finlay, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Jack Anawak, Claude Bachand, John Duncan, John Finlay, Charles Hubbard, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.

Acting Members present: Réginald Bélair for Raymond Bonin; Robert Nault for Elijah Harper.

In attendance: From the Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Bill Farrell and Stephen Knowles, Procedural Clerks. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.

Appearing: Hon. Ron Irwin, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

Witnesses: From the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada: Gordon Shanks, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Strategic Directions; Barbara Craig, Director, DIAND, Band Governance and Estates Directorate; Al Broughton, Legal Counsel, Department of Justice (DIAND, Legal Services).

The Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997, being read as follows:

Ordered,--That Bill C-79, an Act to permit certain modifications in the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them, be referred forthwith to the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 was postponed.

The Chairman called Clause 2.

The Minister made a statement and, with the witnesses, answered questions.

At 1:56 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, MARCH 6, 1997
(Meeting No. 30)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 11:35 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 705, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Duncan, John Finlay, Charles Hubbard, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.

In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Stephen Knowles, Procedural Clerk. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Assembly of First Nations: Ovide Mercredi, National Chief. From The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples: Harry Daniels, President; Frank Palmater and Marc Leclair, Advisors.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997 relating to Bill C-79, An Act to permit certain modifications to the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them (see Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, March 4, 1997, Issue No. 5, Meeting No. 29).

The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.

National Chief Ovide Mercredi made a statement and answered questions.

At 1:05 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 1:15 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

Harry Daniels made a statement and, with Marc Leclair, answered questions.

At 2:15 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 1997
(Meeting No. 31)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 9:07 o'clock a.m. this day, by videoteleconference in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Duncan, Charles Hubbard and John Murphy.

Acting Members present: Yves Rocheleau and Guy Asselin for Maurice Dumas and Murray Calder for John Finlay.

In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Bill Farrell and Stephen Knowles, Procedural Clerks. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Batchawana First Nation: Angela Neveau; Carol Nadjiwan, Councillor and Joe Tom Sayers, Band Member. From Union of Ontario Indians: Joseph Hare, Grand Council Chief, Anishanabek Nation; Louis de Bassige, Member. From Michipicoten First Nation: Chief Sam Stone. From North Shore Tribal Council: Chief Harvey Tetahtegoose, Whitefish Lake First Nation; Roger Jones, Legal counsel, Sagamok Anishnawbek and Chief Larry Bayer, Mississauga First Nation. From Six Nations Council: Chief Wellington Staats. From Chiefs of Ontario: Gordon B. Peters, Regional Chief and Richard Powless, Executive Assistant.

The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.

From Sudbury, Ontario:>

Carol Nadjiwan, from the Batchawana First Nation, made a statement and, with Angela Neveau, answered questions.

Chief Joseph Hare, from the Union of Ontario Indians, made a statement and answered questions.

Chief Sam Stone, from the Michipicoten First Nation, made a statement and answered questions.

At 11:20 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:12 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

Chief Tetahtegoose and Roger Jones, from the North Shore Tribal Council, made statements and answered questions.

Chief Larry Bayer, from the Mississauga First Nation, made a statement and answered questions.

At 1:03 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 3:50 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

From Toronto, Ontario:>

Chief Wellington Staats, from the Six Nations Council, made a statement and answered questions.

At 4:22 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:30 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

Chief Gordon Peters, from the Chiefs of Ontario, made a statement and, with Richard Powless, answered questions.

At 5:25 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 1997
(Meeting No. 32)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 1:30 o'clock p.m. this day, by videoteleconference, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Jack Anawak, Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Duncan, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.
Other Member present: Paul Steckle.
In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Bill Farrell, Procedural Clerk. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.
Witnesses: From Tsartlip Village Council: Joe Bartleman, Councillor. From Hupacasath First Nation: Judith Sayers, Legal Counsel. From Aboriginal Rights Coalition, Vancouver: P. Dawn Mills, Spokesperson. From Neskonlith Indian Band: Chief Arthur Manuel. From Shuswap Nation Tribal Council: Chief Wayne Haimila. From Lheidli T'Enneh Band: Chief Barry Seymour. From Union of British Columbia Indians: Chief Saul Terry, President. From Carrier Sekani Tribal Council: Lynda Prince, Grand Chief. From McLeod Lake Indian Band: Burne Solonas, Spokesperson.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997 relating to Bill C-79, An Act to permit certain modifications to the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them (see Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, March 4, 1997, Issue No. 5, Meeting No. 29).
The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.
From Vancouver, British Columbia>
Joe Bartleman, from Tsartlip Village Council, made a statement and answered questions.
At 2:00 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 2:13 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Judith Sayers, from Hupacasath First Nation, made a statement and answered questions.
Dawn Mills, from the Aboriginal Rights Coalition, made a statement and answered questions.
At 3:25 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 4:21 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Chief Arthur Manuel, from Neskonlith Indian Band, made a statement, Chief Wayne Haimila, from the Shuswap Nation Tribal Council, made a statement and, with Chief Arthur Manuel, answered questions.
Chief Barry Seymour, from the Lheidli T'Enneh Band, made a statement and answered questions.
At 5:47 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 6:37 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Chief Saul Terry, from the Union of British Columbia Indians, made a statement and answered questions.
Grand Chief Lynda Prince, from the Carrier Sekani Tribal Council, made a statement and answered questions.
Burne Solonas, from the McLeod Lake Indian Band, made a statement and answered questions.
At 8:42 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 12, 1997
(Meeting No. 33)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 1:05 o'clock p.m. this day, by videoteleconference in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Duncan, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard and John Murphy.
In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Bill Farrell, Procedural Clerk. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.
Witnesses: From Sayisi Dene First Nation: Nancy Powderhorn, Member; Kevin Carlson. From Nelson House First Nation: Lou Moodie. From Norway House Cree Nation: Luke Hertlein. From Shoal Lake Band No. 40: Chief Herb Redsky; Tom Campbell, Councillor. From Jackhead First Nation: Chief William Traverse. From Swampy Cree Tribal Council: Grand Chief Harold Turner and Chief Francis Flett.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997 relating to Bill C-79, An Act to permit certain modifications to the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them (see minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, March 4, 1997, Issue No. 5, Meeting No. 29).
The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.
From Winnipeg, Manitoba>
At 1:08 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 3:15 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Nancy Powderhorn, from the Sayisi Dene First Nation, made a statement and, with Kevin Carlson, answered questions.
At 3:37 o'clock p.m. the sitting was suspended.
At 3:49 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Lou Moodie, from Nelson House First Nation, made a statement and answered questions.
Luke Hertlein, from Norway House Cree Nation, made a statement and answered questions.
Chief Herb Redsky and Tom Campbell, from Shoal Lake Band No. 40, made statements and answered questions.
At 5:40 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 6:56 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Chief William Traverse, from Jackhead First Nation, made a statement and answered questions.
At 7:20 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 7:33 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Chief Harold Turner and Chief Francis Flett, from the Swampy Cree Tribal Council, made statements and answered questions.
At 8:15 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 1997
(Meeting No. 34)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 9:35 o'clock a.m. this day, by videoteleconference in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, Elijah Harper, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.
In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Bill Farrell, Procedural Clerk. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.
Witnesses: From Union of New Brunswick Indians: Chief Second, Peter Barlow. From Atlantic Policy Congress: John Paul, Executive Director, and Co-Chairs, Chief Laurence Paul and Chief Floyd Bernard. From Mawiw Council: Anthony Francis, Bay Cove Reserve. From Nova Scotia and Newfoundland Secretariat of the Assembly of First Nations: Rick Simon, Regional Vice-Chief. From Confederacy of Mainland Micmacs: Donald M. Julien, Executive Director and Eric Zscheile, Legal Advisor.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997 relating to Bill C-79, An Act to permit certain modifications to the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them (see Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, March 4, 1997, Issue No. 5, Meeting No. 29).
The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.
From Moncton, New Brunswick>
Chief Second Peter Barlow, from the Union of New Brunswick Indians, made a statement and answered questions.
Co-Chairs Laurence Paul and Floyd Bernard, from the Atlantic Policy Congress, made statements and answered questions.
Anthony Francis, from the Mawiw Council, made a statement and answered questions.
Rick Simon, from the Nova Scotia and Newfoundland Secretariat of the AFN, made a statement and answered questions.
Donald M. Julien, from the Confederacy of Mainland Micmacs, made a statement and, with Eric Zscheile, answered questions.
At 12:00 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 1997
(Meeting No. 35)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 1:40 o'clock p.m. this day, by videoteleconference in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, Elijah Harper and John Murphy.
In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Bill Farrell, Procedural Clerk. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.
Witnesses: From Treaty NWT 8 Tribal Council: Chief Jonas Sangris. From Dene Nation: Chief Bill Erasmus. From Deh Cho First Nations: Chief Joachim Bonnetrouge. From the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations: Grand Chief Blaine C. Favel; Chief Austin Bayer, Muskoday First Nation and Mary-Ellen Turpel-Lafond, Legal Counsel.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997 relating to Bill C-79, An Act to permit certain modifications to the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them (see minutes of Proceedings dated Tuesday, March 4, 1997, Issue No. 5, Meeting No. 29).
The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.
From Yellowknife, N.W.T.>
Chief Bill Erasmus, from the Dene Nation, made a statement.
Chief Jonas Sangris, from Treaty NWT 8 Tribal Council, made a statement.
Chief Joachim Bonnetrouge, from Deh Cho First Nations, made a statement and, with Chief Erasmus and Chief Sangris, answered questions.
At 1:52 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 3:10 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
John Murphy took the Chair as Chairman.
From Saskatoon, Saskatchewan>
Grand Chief Blaine C. Favel, from the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations, made a statement and, with Chief Austin Bayer, answered questions.
At 3:35 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, MARCH 18, 1997
(Meeting No. 36)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 9:05 o'clock a.m. this day, by videoteleconference in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard and John Murphy.
Acting Member present: Garry Breitkreuz for John Duncan.
In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Bill Farrell, Procedural Clerk. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.
Witnesses: From United Chiefs of Manitoulin: Tribal Chairman Martin Bayer. From ``Mamit Inuat'': Armand McKenzie, Legal Counsel; Ken Rock, Legal Advisor. From Haudenosaunee Mohawk Nation: Karoniahente, Spokesperson. From ``Fédération provinciale autochtone du Québec'': Chief Claude Gelderblom. From Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs: Grand Chief Phil Fontaine; Ken Young, Legal Counsel; Jack London, Legal Counsel.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997 relating to Bill C-79, An Act to permit certain modifications in the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them (see Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, March 4, 1997, Issue No. 5, Meeting No. 29).
The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.
From Sudbury, Ontario>
Tribal Chairman Martin Bayer, from the United Chiefs of Manitoulin, made a statement and answered questions.
At 9:47 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 9:50 o'clock a.m., the sitting resumed.
From Montreal, Quebec>
Armand McKenzie, from the Mamit Inuat, made a statement and, with Ken Rock, answered questions.
Karoniahente, from Haudenosaunee Mohawk Nation, made a statement and answered questions.
Chief Claude Gelderblom, from ``Fédération provinciale autochtone du Québec'', made a statement and answered questions.
At 10:59 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 11:15 o'clock a.m., the sitting resumed.
Chief Claude Gelderblom continued to answer questions.
At 11:36 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 1:00 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
From Edmonton, Alberta>
Grand Chief Phil Fontaine, from the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, made an opening statement and, with Ken Young and Jack London, answered questions.
At 1:45 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, MARCH 18, 1997
(Meeting No. 37)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 1:58 o'clock p.m. this day, by videoteleconference in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Finlay, Elijah Harper, Charles Hubbard, John Murphy and Bernard Patry.
Acting Member present: Garry Breitkreuz for John Duncan.
In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Bill Farrell, Procedural Clerk. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.
Witnesses: From Native Council of Canada Alberta: Doris Ronnenberg, President; Chief Keith Moon; Lillian Shirt, Member. From Advisory Council of Treaty Women: Helen Gladue, Spokesperson; Veronica Warren, Spokesperson. From the Confederacy of Treaty 6 First Nations: Ron Lameman, Interim Executive Director. As Individuals: Ernie Bruno of the Alexander Band; Ben Fleury; Brian Little Chief. From Saddle Lake First Nation: Eric J. Large, Councillor. As Individuals: Roland Woodward, Councillor, Willow Lake Band; John Malcolm, Paul Cree. From the Samson Cree Nation: Chief Florence Buffalo; Wilton Littlechild, Legal Counsel; Myers Buffalo, Member; Mel Buffalo, President, Indian Association of Alberta. From the Aboriginal Women's Committee for C-31 Issues: Esther Prince, Spokewoman; Valerie Arcand, Spokewoman; Richard Long, Technician. From the Montana Tribal Administration: Leo Cattleman, Spokesperson. From Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada Committee for Church and Society - Alberta and the Territories: Carl Rausch, Chair; Pastor Faith Grace, Inner City Ministry.
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997 relating to Bill C-79, An Act to permit certain modifications in the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them (see Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, March 4, 1997, Issue No. 5, Meeting No. 29).
The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.
From Edmonton, Alberta>
Doris Ronnenberg, Chief Keith Moon and Lillian Shirt, from the Native Council of Canada, Alberta, made statements and answered questions.
Veronica Warren and Helen Gladue, from the Advisory Council of Treaty Women, made statements.
Ron Lameman, from the Confederacy of Treaty 6 First Nations, made a statement and answered questions.
Ernie Bruno, of the Alexander Band, made a statement, as an individual.
At 4:09 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 4:40 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Ben Fleury and Brian Little Chief, made statements as individuals.
At 4:48 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 4:55 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Eric J. Large, from Saddle Lake First Nation, made a statement and answered questions.
Roland Woodward, of the Willow Lake Band, and John Malcolm, of the Paul Cree, made statements as individuals.
Chief Florence Buffalo, from the Samson Cree Nation, made a statement and, with Wilton Littlechild, Myers Buffalo and Mel Buffalo, answered questions.
Esther Prince, Richard Long and Valerie Arcand, from the Aboriginal Women's Committee for C-31 Issues, made statements and answered questions.
At 7:45 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 8:45 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.
Leo Cattleman, from the Montana Tribal Administration, made a statement and answered questions.
Carl Rausch and Pastor Faith Grace, from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, Committee for Church and Society, made statements and answered questions.
At 9:50 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, MARCH 20, 1997
(Meeting No. 38)

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development met at 9:13 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chairman, Raymond Bonin, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Claude Bachand, Raymond Bonin, John Finlay, Charles Hubbard and Bernard Patry.
Acting Members present: Julian Reed for Jack Anawak and Roy Cullen for John Murphy.
Other Member present: Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral.
In attendance: From Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Robert Normand, Procedural Clerk. From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jill Wherrett and Mary Hurley, Research Officers.
Witnesses: From the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada: Barbara Craig, Director, DIAND, Band Governance and Estates Directorate; Al Broughton, Legal Counsel, Department of Justice (DIAND, Legal Services).
The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Wednesday, February 19, 1997 relating to Bill C-79, An Act to permit certain modifications to the application of the Indian Act to bands that desire them (see Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, March 4, 1997, Issue No. 5, Meeting No. 29).
The Committee resumed consideration of Clause 2.
Claude Bachand made a statement.
Clause 2 carried on division.
Clauses 3 and 4 carried, severally, on division.
On Clause 5
Bernard Patry moved,--That Clause 5 be amended by replacing lines 24 to 26 on page 2 with the following:
``5. (1) At the request of the council of a band, assented to in a secret ballot by a majority of the electors of the band who are present at a meeting of the band called for the purpose, the''

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.
Clause 5, as amended, carried on division.
Clauses 6 to 9 carried, severally, on division.
On Clause 10
Bernard Patry moved,--That Clause 10 be amended by replacing line 40 on page 3 with the following:
``10. Section 24 of the Act shall be read as subsection 24 (1) and as"

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.
Clause 10, as amended, carried on division.
Clauses 11 to 16 carried, severally, on division.
On Clause 17
Bernard Patry moved,--That Clause 17 be amended by replacing, in the English version, line 5 on page 7 with the following:
``including the following after subsection (15):''

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.
Clause 17, as amended, carried on division.
Clauses 18 to 45 carried, severally, on division.
Clause 1 carried on division.
The Schedule carried on division.
The Preamble carried on division.
The Title carried on division.
The Bill, as amended, carried on division.
ORDERED,--That the Chairman report the Bill, as amended, to the House.
At 9:42 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Christine Fisher
Clerk of the Committee