[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Wednesday, May 31, 1995
.1740 
[Translation]
The Chairman: Order please!
At 4:00 p.m. the Sub-committee met with Mr. Shepherd and Mr. Harper. We raised the issue with the Committee. Initially, the sitting was public and then the Committee decided to consider the reports in camera.
Then, we resumed the public sitting, and after the meeting, we were told that translation costs for minutes in due form could run at several thousands of dollars. If we held the meetings in camera, the House could save thousands of dollars in translating and preparing issues.
We thought we would suggest holding committee meetings in camera when draft reports are considered. I think that the representatives have raised this with their colleagues. I was also in favour of that.
Mr. Laurin made a request. Mr. Laurin, you agree with sitting in camera today. For the consideration of draft reports, you do not object, but if other items were added to the agenda, you would prefer our deciding in each case, at the outset, if the meeting will be public or in camera. I think I have translated the spirit of your request.
Mr. Laurin (Joliette): Normally, we are given the agenda before each meeting. Once familiar with the agenda, we can agree on whether or not it should be in camera or if just certain parts of it should be in camera. I would be willing to agree to something like that. Today, we know that the only item on the agenda is considering the end of the report. I don't object to our sitting in camera today, but I wouldn't want this to be taken as my consent for the future. We should ask the question before each meeting, because as a rule, our meetings are public.
The Chairman: I would like to hear from both parties on this. This is a new element in addition to what we discussed in the Sub-committee. For today, you agree, but at each meeting, we will decide whether the meeting will be public or in camera based on the items on the agenda. What do you think about that?
I'm reminded that the issue only arises for draft reports. We will sit in camera only to consider draft reports.
For today, if I'm not mistaken, there's unanimous consent for holding the meeting in camera.
[English]
Mr. Shepherd (Durham): I have a concern. What about yesterday when we did this? What is the status of that? Was it in camera as well?
The Chairman: That was public.
[Translation]
Yesterday's meeting was public.
[English]
The Clerk of the Committee: There was evidence. It was a public meeting. It was on the airways where anybody could have recorded it; it was on the OASIS network in the House of Commons. Who knows what was recorded from yesterday? We can't change the status of the meeting retroactively, so we're talking about today.
.1745
Mr. Shepherd: Is it thousands of dollars? Surely we're not talking about one meeting, are we?
The Clerk: All meetings of committees, no matter what you're studying, will cost an average of about $8,000 for a two-hour meeting.
Mr. Shepherd: No.
The Clerk: Yes, and all chairmen know that. That's why committees have been encouraged, since the beginning of this Parliament, to hold meetings in camera if they don't have outside witnesses. Most committees have ignored that, even though the costs are quite substantial.
Mr. Shepherd: That's incredible. I feel bad about not having the one from the other day made in camera. Can we not, as a committee, make it retroactive? Committees can do anything, can they not? Or don't you think you can stop the process?
The Clerk: No, it's not a matter of stopping the process. I think you could probably end up with a question of privilege in the House of Commons as to the authority of changing the status of a public meeting.
As I said, I think the press records all the meetings in any case, so if they ever hear after the case that something exciting happened, they can go back. I would not be surprised if there's a tape out there belonging to the press that contains yesterday's evidence. If you change the status you can be sure that somebody will go and listen to every word spoken yesterday.
Mr. Shepherd: Maybe it would be a good way to get some publicity for the committee.
[Translation]
The Chairman: For today, we have agreement in principle for considering the draft report. Perfect. We will raise the issue each time the Committee sits from now on.
[The meeting continues in camera]