AGRI Committee Meeting
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37th PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION
Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food
EVIDENCE
CONTENTS
Tuesday, February 4, 2003
| Á | 1105 |
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The Clerk of the Committee |
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Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski-Neigette-et-la Mitis, BQ) |
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The Clerk |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, PC) |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair (Mr. Paul Steckle (Huron—Bruce, Lib.)) |
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Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance) |
| Á | 1110 |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik |
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The Chair |
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Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur (Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Canadian Alliance) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. David Anderson |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP) |
| Á | 1115 |
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The Chair |
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Mr. David Anderson |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Marcel Gagnon (Champlain, BQ) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Howard Hilstrom |
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The Clerk |
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Mr. Howard Hilstrom |
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The Chair |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Howard Hilstrom |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik |
| Á | 1120 |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair |
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Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair |
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The Clerk |
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An hon. member |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik |
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The Chair |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair |
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The Clerk |
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Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Marcel Gagnon |
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The Chair |
| Á | 1125 |
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Mr. Howard Hilstrom |
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Mr. David Anderson |
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The Chair |
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Mr. David Anderson |
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The Chair |
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Mr. David Anderson |
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The Chair |
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Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur |
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The Chair |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair |
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Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Howard Hilstrom |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik |
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The Chair |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair |
CANADA
Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food |
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EVIDENCE
Tuesday, February 4, 2003
[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Á 
(1105)
[Translation]
The Clerk of the Committee: Honourable members of the committee, we have a quorum. We can now proceed with the election of the chair.
Are there any nominations for chair? Est-ce qu'il y a des candidatures?
Mrs. Tremblay.
Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski-Neigette-et-la Mitis, BQ): I nominate Paul Steckle for election as committee chair.
The Clerk: Are there any further nominations? The nominations are now closed then.
[English]
Madam Tremblay moves that Mr. Steckle be elected chair of the committee.
(Motion agreed to)
The Clerk: We will proceed to the election of the vice-président du parti ministériel.
Mr. Borotsik.
Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, PC): I move the appointment of Rose-Marie Ur as vice-chair.
The Clerk: Nominations are closed.
Mr. Borotsik moves that Mrs. Ur be elected vice-chair of this committee.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair (Mr. Paul Steckle (Huron—Bruce, Lib.)): Thank you very much, committee members on all sides of the House.
I appreciate the confidence that has been given to me this morning. I trust that over the next period of time, at least until the House recesses in June, we will have a productive time. As we look forward to future business of this House, we see a fairly busy agenda. Not yet having consulted with the clerk, I would presume we'll be moving on to future business of this committee.
I'm in your hands, members. A list is being distributed, and we'll just wait a moment for that.
Perhaps at the outset, before we begin, I should speak about the procedure here for members speaking. I think we'll continue on with the same process we had prior to adjournment at Christmastime. It worked well, and I think all members were able to have their time. Rather than spending a lot of time on debate, we understand that the first round is seven minutes and the second round goes to five. That's just so we understand.
We have the proposals here that were suggestions made prior, I believe, to when we convened last September. I think we need to look at these this morning. There are a lot of things here, but I think there are a number of things that are fairly imminent, things we should deal with in the near term because of the timeframe in which they are in context. I'm asking this morning for some direction, some guidance, so we can set the agenda as we move into the next few weeks.
Howard, you are first.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): There's nothing more immediate than the issue I'm going to bring up right now, and that's the TB situation in Riding Mountain National Park. Two more herds got quarantined here on January 20. That tuberculosis disease is spreading out of that national park.
We heard from two witnesses under the old chairman. One was Mr. Fenton, the park superintendent, and the other was the CFIA lady. We have to have the cattle producers who are under these quarantine restrictions here to tell us, from the ranchers' and cattlemen's perspective, what they're facing and what they think of the plan that's been put forward by the CFIA and the Province of Manitoba.
The fact of the matter is, it's not working. This makes eight herds that are under quarantine for TB, and there are 50,000 head of cattle there that have to have special permits to move out of that area.
This not only affects Manitoba and the Riding Mountain National Park area, but it's getting into the wildlife that is outside the park and it will get into cattle herds farther out of this zone. I think we need to have at least one more hearing before we put a recommendation to the minister as to what we think of the plan from both the government side and the farmers' side and get that over to the minister ASAP. In my opinion, that is the most important meeting to have right off the bat.
Á (1110)
The Chair: Mr. Borotsik.
Mr. Rick Borotsik: Coming from Manitoba, I'm not going to disagree with Howard. Certainly it's impacting the industry, and I think it's important. I think we can accommodate a number of issues.
The minister has already indicated that by April 1 he's going to have new safety nets, particularly new criteria for NISA, in place. That's fine and good for the provinces that have signed on, but I've heard from a number of stakeholders, a number of their organizations that are very concerned about this. There's only a 60-day window here--it's going to be in place by April 1--and I think it's important that we hear from the department and quite frankly that we hear from the minister as to how he's putting in this safety net program.
Once the program in place, you can't lock the barn door afterwards. We have to hear from him before April 1 to make sure that the stakeholders are onside. I want to hear from the CFA, I want to hear from people like KAP, and I want to hear from the producers themselves, because they are the ones who are going to live with this, not the minister and certainly not his bureaucrats. I would like to see that on the urgent agenda, as opposed to something we can deal with after April 1.
The Chair: Mrs. Ur.
Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur (Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, Lib.): I certainly support Mr. Borotsik's discussion on the APF. We don't have a long time to discuss this, and I certainly agree that the department and the minister should come sooner than later. It is a real crisis in my riding and, from what I hear, in other ridings as well. Many, many organizations are quite upset. Rules change and programs change, and they don't know just exactly what they are going to be facing. We need to know once and for all what the program is all about. So I support that.
The Chair: Mr. Anderson.
Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Canadian Alliance): I've sent the letter in as well, requesting that we study the long-term impact of the new NISA. After the last meeting we had with the minister, I was very concerned. I assume other people were too about the lack of detail in the program. We had seven-plus deputy ministers in the room at the time and weren't able to get any clear definition of what this plan is going to be about. We need to understand the new NISA, what they're going to do with crop insurance.
I'd actually like to make a specific demand of them that they come in with a contrast of the old and the new NISA so we can see the clear differences between the two programs. Most producers haven't seen that, and I don't think that the provinces have seen it yet either. I think it's important that we do that.
The Chair: Would you like to see a model brought?
Mr. David Anderson: Definitely, as part of the presentation.
The Chair: Mr. Proctor.
Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I don't disagree with anything that's been said on this priority list. I think if you look at the page that's in front of us, obviously some of the items could be rolled in together or considered in close proximity to one another.
I did want, however, to specifically note the meat inspection codes for interprovincial trade under item three. I'm certainly not an expert in this, but I have had some discussions, and it appears as if there has been an ongoing discussion at the bureaucratic level between the provinces and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency for a number of years. According to people I have talked with in the provinces, they are just sort of at an impasse. They feel that it does need some discussion at the political level as to what's going on here. This involves the bison industry, particularly in western Canada. I think it does deserve some attention.
Á (1115)
The Chair: Does anyone else have something?
Mr. Anderson.
Mr. David Anderson: One more issue that ties in a bit here is the quarantines on the elk farms. It ties somewhat into what Howard said. The elk industry is a good example of what may happen in Manitoba shortly if they don't do something about the TB situation. I think we should be looking at that as well.
The Chair: Yes, Mr. Borotsik.
Mr. Rick Borotsik: I have one very quick comment. I'll go back to item four, which effectively ties into item two, if you want.
We have heard recently that there is a potential of having some of the American border crossings closed off. They're becoming much more protectionist.
This is something we can deal with after April 1, but I think it's something that has to be held on the priority list, because quite frankly, about 50% of what we ship goes to the United States. They're talking about 24 hours' notice now on some products. They're talking about action against the durum wheat exports into the United States.
I think we should be looking very seriously, as a committee, into how we can maintain those trade relationships, because it is vital to the industry. That's what I'd like to put on the priority list as well.
The Chair: Mr. Gagnon.
[Translation]
Mr. Marcel Gagnon (Champlain, BQ): Thank you.
It's rather difficult to choose from among the subjects listed for our consideration, because they are all extremely important. I too think it would be advisable to group some of them together to avoid covering the same ground two or three times. I'm most interested in income security, a subject very much on the minds of farmers across the country. I think we need to examine this matter further to determine exactly where we are heading.
We also need to look at WTO rulings and their ramifications. What's happening on that front? This subject is also a source of concern for rural residents.
I'll conclude on that note, but as we go along, we can rank the other topics by order of importance. How much time do we have? Shall we set aside a certain number of hours or meetings to discuss each subject?
[English]
The Chair: Yes, Mr. Gagnon, for your information, the steering committee will meet, and we will determine.... I hope we have consensus here this morning before we leave that we can meet and put together some sort of agenda, given that we know how many weeks we have left when we look at the calendar. We'll try to accommodate at least the urgent issues as quickly as we can. It's imperative we get some of these on the table very quickly.
Howard.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom: Our committee meetings are going to be Tuesday and Thursday as usual?
The Clerk: From eleven until one.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom: Okay. That's a little bit of a time difference. That's fine. So the next committee meeting will be when?
The Chair: It could be Thursday if we have something on the agenda. Could we do that?
The Clerk: I've already advised Agriculture Canada that they could be called on the NISA subject.
The Chair: I guess we could decide right now, because it's on the table now. Can we meet with the department regarding the APF? I think that's what we're talking about--NISA and how that rolls in there.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom: Yes.
We've gone a week without sitting. We've been back here since January 27, for crying out loud, and we haven't sat yet.
I appreciate the election and everything, but I would agree with NISA being there, from the Alliance's point of view. But then I would really like to see it followed up with at least half a meeting with a couple of key farmers and ranchers, two guys from Manitoba, on this TB business.
I don't know if everybody really appreciates that TB in Manitoba is affecting the whole Canadian livestock industry. I have to repeat the importance of that. I'd like to see the second meeting followed up with that TB business.
The Chair: Okay. We'll take that under advisement.
Can we deal with the matter that was put to the table? Are we in agreement that we can meet on Thursday from eleven to one?
Mr. Rick Borotsik: On a point of order, just for the information of this committee, at 11:30 this coming Thursday, February 6, the CFA is holding their Food Freedom Day, which most of us have attended in the past. So if you're doing an eleven o'clock to one o'clock meeting, it's going to have an impact on that.
I think they have given us some opportunity to speak at that Food Freedom Day. I know, Howard, you've done it before. It is this coming Thursday, just for your information.
Á (1120)
The Chair: That's an important point. I guess it's whether that's more important than dealing with this issue. I'm in your hands. I seek some direction.
Mr. Rick Borotsik: Can we do it in a nine o'clock to eleven o'clock meeting instead?
The Clerk: I could try, but it's our appointed slot.
The Chair: The clerk tells me she would make the effort to seek a nine o'clock to eleven o'clock meeting but that might not be possible, given the circumstances around this place. Our slotted time is eleven to one.
Mrs. Ur.
Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur: That was my question. Has our slotted time been changed from nine to eleven? Will it always be from eleven to one?
The Clerk: That will be our time slot until September. After that we'll go from 3:30 to 5:30, and then we'll go back after Christmas next year. We rotate now as groups.
The Chair: Can we remember that far ahead? Can we forget the past?
The Clerk: I'll remind you.
An hon. member: To accommodate Mr. Borotsik's request, why don't you meet from 12 to 2, or 12 to 1:45?
Mr. Rick Borotsik: It's not my request; it's just a point of information.
The Chair: Is that a possibility?
The Clerk: Yes, I'll try. Do you prefer 12 to 2?
The Chair: Let's leave it in the clerk's hands to try to find accommodations so we can be represented at both events on Thursday.
Is there consensus that we meet on Thursday?
The Clerk: Mr. Laliberte has a point.
The Chair: Mr. Laliberte. I'm sorry.
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, Lib.): I didn't want to miss the opportunity to make you aware--maybe part of the future business within the next year or so--it's the international year of fresh water, and agriculture, for the most part, depends on fresh water in any way, shape, or form.
Is there any way we can do a national assessment on the quality of water on our farms, its long-term use, and water management in this country?
The Chair: This committee is the master of its own destiny. We can go in as many directions as time allows. If the committee feels that's important--and the chair certainly does--it's something we could take under advisement and see how we could work it.
Is there anyone else, before we bring this together in some sort of format to give some direction to the steering committee?
Yes, Mr. Gagnon.
[Translation]
Mr. Marcel Gagnon: Mr. Chairman, you just told Mr. Laliberté that this was an important matter. We need to determine which is more important. I agree that water is the burning issue. I understand a committee is to meet to determine how much time to allocate to each topic and what the order of priority will be. Mention was also made of tuberculosis. It seems that every subject mentioned is equally as important. Tuberculosis, however, is very important as well.
[English]
The Chair: I think we need to take Mr. Laliberte's recommendation very seriously. It's an issue of interest not only to this committee but to environment and health--right across the whole spectrum. It involves a lot of ministries.
The sovereignty of our water is another big issue, and I'm not sure where Canada's position is on that. Perhaps this committee can make that determination. We can have the minister appear so we can get some determination as to who is really in charge of the water issues in this country and who has sovereignty. That's a good point.
Are there any other points you want to put on the table before we get some feeling on your priorities of the ones that have been listed? We have APF listed.
Howard first mentioned the TB issue. It's a very serious issue and we need to deal with that quickly. As he said, it's not only a Manitoba issue; it's become an issue for the whole beef industry in this country. It affects all of us, so I think we need to do that.
APF is of prime importance because of the time factor. We're talking about March 31 or April 1, which is less than two months away. We have the whole meat inspection issue that needs to be dealt with. Do we have some sense of where and how you would like us to go as a steering committee? I feel it's important that we set the agenda together as a steering committee once we have some direction.
Is there any further direction, or would you put it in the hands of the steering committee to find that direction?
Howard.
Á (1125)
Mr. Howard Hilstrom: When is the steering committee going to meet? If it's meeting this afternoon that's fine and dandy, but we have this one-hour meeting with a couple of ranchers. I'm not even sure if they're from Rick Borotsik's area or whose area they're from. They're certainly not in my area. But there are a couple of ranchers who are the main spokesmen for the cattle producers in that area.
We already have the evidence from the government. Once we have a one-hour hearing with those two guys, our assistants can put a report together and get it to the minister really fast.
I'd like you to ask the committee if we can do that on the next meeting after the NISA one.
Mr. David Anderson: I was just going to suggest that maybe we take a little bit of time, and the steering committee take Wednesday or Thursday and set an agenda for us, and that we meet next Tuesday for our first meeting. I don't know if everybody wants to wait a week, but that would give you some time to organize. These guys need to come down; you can get it organized--the APF, the government guys--
The Chair: Are you saying have a steering committee meeting this week?
Mr. David Anderson: I'm just suggesting that we take a bit of time so we can get this properly organized.
The Chair: Would that meet with the approval of the vice-chair on the government side?
Mr. David Anderson: My main critic may disagree with me.
The Chair: Mrs. Ur, would you be fine with the idea of meeting tomorrow or Thursday, before next Tuesday's meeting, in a steering committee capacity to set an agenda?
Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur: Sure.
The Chair: We seem to have consensus. Mr. Gagnon? Yes, and Mr. Anderson again. Is that it?
Okay, I gather what we have here is consensus that the steering committee meet at the earliest opportunity, Wednesday or Thursday of this week, so that we have some sort of direction for next week's meeting, and that we proceed, first of all, with the APF.
An hon. member: Mr. Chair, who's on the steering committee?
The Clerk: That's my question. We didn't name members of the steering committee, but they should be the chair, two vice-chairs, the parliamentary secretary, a representative of the Canadian Alliance,
[Translation]
someone from the Bloc and someone from... That's right.
[English]
The Chair: I guess Mr. Borotsik is the representative from the Conservatives, Mr. Proctor from the NDP, and Mr. Gagnon, whoever you choose to send--that's really your party's prerogative, to send someone from your party to the steering committee--and then one member from the....
Is that understood? Steering committees haven't always met regularly, but I think it's important in steering committees that there be a consensus from all parties that we have an agenda that meets everyone's approval.
Yes, Mrs. Ur.
Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur: How many from the government side are on the steering committee?
The Clerk: Three people.
The Chair: Yes, Mr. Hilstrom.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom: There being a new chair, we don't have to go back and pass all the motions all over again. These are things that we already know, as this is how it works and it's already set up. So we don't have to go over this stuff.
The Chair: No.
Mr. Borotsik.
Mr. Rick Borotsik: This is pretty simple. We just maintain the status quo for the steering committee. Most of the people are in the room right now. Can we not stay here for half an hour and just deal with the steering committee?
It's pretty simple. It's APF and it's TB, and if we're going to invite people to a meeting next Tuesday, let's do it now. I'm prepared to stay for half an hour.
The Chair: I'm prepared to stay here. If you're in agreement to do that, then we'll do that and get it out of the way right now.
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Clerk: We have the room until one o'clock.
The Chair: We have the room until one o'clock, so I think we should do that.
Is there any other business before the chair? There's no other business?
The meeting stands adjourned.